The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

As VP of Creative Services at SESAC, Shannan Hatch leads the Nashville-based creative team in supporting SESAC-affiliated songwriters and publishers. She also works closely with senior management to support creative-focused initiatives and goals. As a gifted songwriter advocate, Hatch and her team are responsible for the recruitment, signing and nurturing of songwriters and publishers and the retention of existing SESAC-affiliated writers and publishers.

During her time with SESAC, Hatch has worked closely with affiliates Lee Brice, Jamey Johnson, Runaway June, Craig Campbell, Josh Hoge, Jesse Lee, Richard Leigh, Jaron Boyer, Cary Barlowe, Lance Miller, Monty Powell, and Michael Tyler, along with Americana tunesmiths Hayes Carll, Jim Lauderdale, and Allison Moorer, among many others.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Tennessee. I was born in Knoxville, but I came to Nashville when I was in fourth grade, so I spent most of my growing up years here in Nashville.

Did growing up in Nashville make you want to be in the music industry?

No, I didn’t know what I wanted to be. Being here in Nashville, you’re surrounded by it. When I got out of high school, I didn’t want to go the traditional college route because you have to get a degree even though you don’t know what you want to be. My boyfriend at the time, his whole family was in the music industry. They were like, “We think you’d be really good at PR. You should give it a shot.” A lady named Susan Collier, who had just left Capitol and had started an independent PR company, was looking for an intern or somebody to help. I started doing tour and album press for her. I got to do my first CRS and it was so much fun. I was like, “Wow, I really like this.”

She introduced me to Ed Morris, who was writing a book at the time, so I researched his book and had a great time doing that. I spent a summer in the old Hall of Fame library. I ended up going to college at MTSU and got a degree in public relations.

What was next?

When I got out of college, I started working for AristoMedia. Jeff Walker and Kay Clary hired me. I worked with Kay for years through a couple of different companies. She started her own company called Commotion PR and I helped her there. She and I got along great. I learned a lot about the history of music and how to do things differently.

How did you end up in the publishing side of the business?

All of my social group were getting into publishing or writing songs, so I was out at the songwriter nights watching the shows—and eating it up—Monday through Thursday night every week. SESAC called and they were looking for somebody in their creative department. It was a natural fit because I was going to the shows, the songwriters were my friends, and we were all growing up together. I will celebrate 20 years at SESAC in August.

What was something you learned when you started working with songwriters?

A lot. The whole craft of a song… there’s so much that goes into that. I didn’t realize what all went into writing a song. People move to Nashville and think that they can do it, but not everybody can. I learned what it takes to put all the pieces together.

I have a special relationship with a lot of our writers and artists. It’s because of my husband Rob [Hatch], too. Our best friends are uncle Lee [Brice], uncle Randy [Houser], uncle Jamey [Johnson] and uncle Dallas [Davidson]. My best friend, Juli Griffith, is in publishing. We are surrounded by it and it’s the family we get to choose.

Who are some affiliates that you’ve gotten to work with that you’re really proud of?

Jimmie Allen is one that I’m so proud of because he’s just worked so hard. He came into my office eight to 10 years ago. He was a little bit more pop-leaning at the time and country wasn’t really going in that direction. He moved out to LA for a little while and when he came back, he knew exactly what he wanted to be and exactly what he wanted to do. He’s also just a good person, so watching him have success makes me so happy.

I’m also very proud of Niko Moon. He’s always been an artist, but he was writing with Zac Brown at the time [that I met him]. I remember him calling me and saying, “I’ve got this record and I really think it’s going to do something. I’m really excited about it.” It had a total different feel with Caribbean and beach vibes. I was driving through Atlanta when he sent it to me, we were on our way to Florida to see Rob’s parents. Then a year later, he gets a record deal and the singles start coming out. Seeing somebody like that who knows their vision and puts the pieces together… I’m so proud of him.

I’m also so proud of Lee Brice and what he’s accomplished. I’m just very blessed that I get to work with the people I work with.

What goes into your role at SESAC?

A lot! That’s what’s wonderful about it. It’s different every day and moment by moment. It’s very fluid. I love [getting to organize and host] No. 1 parties. I love awards shows. I love getting to celebrate the writers and artists, but that’s not the day-to-day.

Helping songwriters is however it looks for that person. If they’re looking for a publishing deal, I’m picking up the phone and calling publishers or sending music to publishers for them. I don’t schedule co-writes but I’ll make introductions—I call it blind dating.

A lot of it is the administration side: making sure that they’re registered properly, they’re getting their songs in the system properly, they’re getting their MP3s uploaded, the splits are correct, the publisher names are correct, and more. There are a lot of people that think that just magically happens on their behalf, but we are behind the scenes tidying it up. We make sure the songs are encoded properly, that they’re being tracked properly, and the payments are getting to them. The ultimate job is making sure the songwriters and the publishers get paid.

What is something people might not know about you?

I like to bass fish and I’m a winged-huntress, [or a hunter that only hunts winged animals]. [Laughs] My husband is an avid hunter for mostly white-tailed deer. He started a hunting camp up in southern Illinois. A lot of songwriters are involved in it. He’s been able to put the passion of music and the passion of hunting together, and it’s created a little family atmosphere at the lodge. The kids and I will go up there. I love to cook and I like to hear the stories. The guys play music, so it’s the best of both worlds.

Who have been some of your mentors?

Kay Clary was a big mentor when she took me under her wing at Aristo Media. I still admire her. She has such a rich knowledge of the history of music. Kelli Turner, who left SESAC last year, is a good mentor and friend. I miss her not being here. Being at SESAC for so long, I’ve been here through three different owners. Kelli has been the only female. Cathy Grizzell, who runs HR, has been there from the beginning. Those ladies were really good about giving the women at the company strength. They helped everybody really realize their potential.

If someone was describing you, what would you want them to say?

I hope that somebody would say that I am kind, that I’m sincere, and that I would help anybody, because I think of myself that way. Not only on the business side, but on the personal side of helping.

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Ben Vaughn is President & CEO of Warner Chappell Music Nashville, where he has spent the last decade overseeing all creative and commercial activities across A&R, administration, business development, finance, and human resources. Vaughn also works with staff songwriters, while actively engaging in songwriter advocacy and rights protection initiatives. The company has been named Country Publisher of the Year at ASCAP eight times, BMI four times and SESAC twice. In 2019, Warner Chappell won the coveted Triple Crown for the first time, sweeping the ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC Awards.

Vaughn was the youngest executive to ever head a major publisher in Nashville when he became EVP and GM of EMI Music Publishing. During his career, he has worked with songwriters who have been honored by the CMA, ACM, Grammy and PROs, collectively winning Songwriter of the Year 19 times and Song of the Year 32 times. His industry honors include being named Billboard‘s 2020 Nashville Executive of the Year, multiple times listed in 40 under 40, Country Aircheck‘s Power 31, and receiving Belmont University’s Music Milestone Award.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in a map dot town in Kentucky called Sullivan. It’s about 500 people. It was an awesome place to grow up. My father was a coal miner and a mechanic. My family is very blue collar.

How did you get into music?

When I was 16, I wanted to get a job. I liked country music, so I just went to the local radio station. They played country music, ran all of the high school football and basketball games, and played the St. Louis Cardinals’ baseball games. It was called WMSK.

That’s where I got my love and deep knowledge of country music. That place was like a library. At the time, CDs would come in every couple of weeks from Nashville on a service called CDX. I would just devour that. I would look at who wrote the songs, who published the songs, the record label names, the producers… I was fascinated by all of it.

How did you end up moving to Nashville?

I was a good student in high school. I was at the top of my class, the newspaper editor and the school bank president. Most of my friends knew where they wanted to go to college and what they wanted to do, but I didn’t. One night when I was working at the radio station, I was driving home really late because of a late St. Louis Cardinals baseball game. I remember this stretch of road in the back woods in Kentucky. I’m driving and have the windows down, blasting ’90s country music. All of a sudden I just thought, “I want to do this. I love country music and I want to do something around country music.” It wasn’t more evolved than that, but that was my light bulb moment. I found out about Belmont University, which was also a light bulb moment. I was like, “Wow, you can actually go to college to study the music industry?” I had gotten some scholarship offers from some other schools, but I didn’t even visit any other places. I was like, “I want to work in the music business and this is what I need to do. I’m going to go figure it out.” So I moved to Nashville.

I didn’t really know anybody when I moved to Nashville. I was in school for about two weeks and I was told by a professor, Bob Malloy, to look to your left and look to your right. He said, “You will end up working with some of your classmates,” and he was completely right.

How did you get your career started while at Belmont?

There was a paper that you had to do at Belmont where you had to interview someone in the music industry. I found out that I had a middle school computer teacher who had moved to Nashville and had gotten a job as a staff songwriter at Warner Chappell. I called her out of the blue and asked her to help me find someone to interview. She said, “Let me bring you to my publisher.” So she walked me around the Warner Chappell building—the same building we just re-opened this year. I remember meeting Josh Leo, who produced Alabama, and Jeff Stevens. I was totally fan-girling. I had an interview with Kurt Denny, who was one of the publishers there. I walked into the tape room and I just asked, “Can I intern here?” They were like, “Sure!” (Laughs) You’re not supposed to intern as a freshman, so I had to get special permission from Bob, but I got an internship within two weeks of being in town.

Did you know from that point on that you wanted to be a publisher?

I just wanted to work in country music. I didn’t know what that would mean at all. I feel like I got really lucky that my first experience was in music publishing, because what I’ve learned about myself is that I’m one of those left brain and right brain people. I equally love the creative part of publishing as I do the administrative and licensing side of it. They both are fascinating to me—the business side and the creative side. Publishing is where you can marry the two together, so it’s always been really suited for my personality type because I can click in either and be really happy.

What followed your Warner Chappell internship?

I got this opportunity to go to a partner company of Warner Chappell’s called Big Tractor Music. They asked me to come over and intern for them. I was getting ready to start my junior year and they were going to pay me $5.50 an hour. It was a small office of just myself, another person that ran the office, and three writers. The person that was running the company ended up leaving. I had been there about six months and I’d been hustling. I had been pitching songs for the writers, I was driving around trying to find Garth Brooks‘ truck and put cassette tapes on the windshield—I got a cut out of that. (Laughs) I was doing anything possible to try to make something happen for those songwriters. [When the person running the company left], Warner Chappell was trying to figure out who they were going to hire for that position.

The writers were like, “Why don’t you get Ben a shot?” I had just turned 21, which is crazy. Scott Hendricks owned that company at the time and at that point in his career, he was running Capitol Records. He was a really successful producer and was busy, so he called me in his office and basically said, “Listen, the writers really like you. We’ll give you six months to take a shot at this, but if you quit school, I’ll fire you.” I was a junior in college at that moment, and it took me about six and a half years to finish college, but I did it.

Big Tractor was amazing. We became a really successful small publishing company. It afforded me the ability to learn a lot about the nuts and bolts of music publishing, not necessarily just on the creative side, but also on the deal making side, the administration side, and just how it all fits together.

Did you have people doubt you because you were so young?

All the time. I’m 46 now and I’ve had the opportunity to run major publishing companies for almost 14 years, which is crazy. For so long I was always the kid just trying to prove that I could actually be in a room and be heard, compete and contribute. Now it’s flipped where I’m viewed as the mentor, so that’s an interesting feeling.

Age is just a number. It’s really about how much heart and effort you put in it. No matter what it is. I was thrown into the lake and told to swim. I think it’s an awesome way to do it, personally. You can see pretty quickly if someone us going to be able to figure it out or not.

After your work at Big Tractor, you went to EMI Music Publishing where you eventually became the youngest executive to head a major publishing company in Nashville. Tell me about that transition.

I was at Big Tractor for about six years and we had a lot of success. I try to make a lot of my decisions based on education and what I can learn. I was definitely a self-taught publisher at that point. At the time, EMI was losing a couple of their vice presidents. Gary Overton ran EMI for a number of years very successfully. He was a very smart executive, and knew everything about the publishing business. They approached me about joining the company, so I decided to leave Big Tractor based on what I could learn and the platform of the company.

Gary was a wonderful mentor. He was very open and willing to share his knowledge of the business. For me at the time, it was absolutely perfect. I was there for 10 years and ran the creative department for seven of those years. When I was 34, I got the chance to run the company. I was the youngest person to do that, which is nuts. The executives at EMI gave me a lot of trust and I worked really hard to earn that. It was a great experience to be at that company. We helped a lot of songwriters break through that have gone on to become some of the biggest writers and artists in the format.

How did you wind up back at Warner Chappell, all those years later?

There was a big acquisition with all of the EMI companies. The record labels when to Universal and the publishing company went to Sony. I learned a lot during that transition. You could argue that was the biggest seismic shift that has ever happened in this town, in terms of affecting the most amount of people. My part of that story was I wasn’t able to stay with the EMI company. It was not a possibility. I had about six months of a sabbatical and was doing lunches, talking to people, and trying to figure out what I was going to do next. I had a few really good opportunities and options, but this Warner Chappell opportunity came up. [Working at Warner Chappell] has really been one of the best things I’ve ever gotten to do in my life. I got to go back to a company where I started as an intern. How cool is that? Some of our administrative folks were there when I was an intern. This year is my tenth year. We’ve grown a lot in 10 years. We’ve been able to be a part of so many people’s stories.

What are some of the best qualities about our industry?

The community, first and foremost. The real celebration of songwriting. That’s so special and it’s, in some ways, very unique to Nashville. I see it getting a little better in some places, but the songwriters here are really celebrated in so many ways and that’s so wonderful.

If someone were to ask you how to be successful in this business, what would you say?

Do well in the little things. Always follow through. I feel like that is a skill that has gotten in short supply in so many ways. Be somebody that does what you say you’re going to do and follow through.

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

With 43 years in the music industry, Allen Brown has worked with a multitude of country stars, including 18 Country Music Hall of Famers. At the end of June, Brown will retire from his position as Senior Vice President, Media and Corporate Communications at Sony Music Nashville, where he oversees the media department and handles PR for the the label group, which includes RCA Nashville, Columbia Nashville and Arista Nashville.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I’m from Emmett, Idaho, which is about 25 miles from Boise. My mom and dad were both born in Idaho, so I’m a second generation Idahoan. My grandfather, who I’m named after, had a fruit ranch that was on the hillside around the valley. My home town is a valley, which is very picturesque.

How did you get interested in music?

My two sisters and I took piano lessons [when we were kids]. I started out in second grade and took lessons until my freshman year of high school. In junior high, I was in orchestra. I played violin and my orchestra teacher was my piano teacher, too. So I had an appreciation for musical instruments that I played, and I enjoyed dabbling in songwriting.

My dad—Floyd Brown, who passed away in 2015—had the lifelong dream of having a radio station. Early in life, he started a repair and retail store called Brown’s Radio Shack, believe it or not. It became Brown’s Radio and TV Shack. While he still had that little mom and pop business, he started a radio station when I was a freshman in high school. My mom and dad worked there, I worked there, my cousin and also my brother-in-law. I was an on-air announcer, though not a very good one. (Laughs) I worked at the station through all of my high school years. There was a point where I actually would wake up very early in the morning, go and sign on the station at 6:00 a.m., and then go back home, take a shower, eat breakfast, and go to high school.

Did you know that you wanted to work in the music business then?

I had decided to go to Boise State for college. When I was trying to figure out what I wanted to major in, that was a bit of a challenge. I ended up declaring political science for some reason, but after my first poli-sci class, I figured out that’s not what I wanted to do. (Laughs) I changed my major to marketing.

At the beginning of my sophomore year, I was trying to figure out ultimately what I would like to be when I grow up. [Like I said], I had dabbled with songwriting and really enjoyed it. I had stopped taking piano lessons back in high school, but I would still play around with it. I would write songs just for myself. While at Boise State, I had entered an American Songwriter competition. I didn’t win, but I received a booklet that listed a lot of reputable music publishers. As I was figuring out my next steps in college, I looked through that booklet and highlighted 100 key publishers, or the ones I was familiar with. I sent a form letter to them saying, “I’m majoring in marketing, but I’m thinking about transferring and would be interested in getting feedback from you on what type of courses to take that would prepare me for a music publishing profession.” I ended up getting 10 letters back, which wasn’t bad. In two of those, the first thing they mentioned was, “You need to look into Belmont.” I never knew there was a program that existed for music business.

You ended up transferring to Belmont. How did you start your career from there?

While I was at Belmont, I worked part-time as a tour guide at the Country Music Hall of Fame. Kathy Mattea was also a tour guide at the time, before she had her label deal. My second day at Belmont, I met who would become the chairman and CEO of the company I’m leaving, Randy Goodman. I also met Doug Howard, now Belmont’s Dean of the Curb College of Entertainment and Music. All three of us had a class together and we would hang out sometimes afterwards. My senior year at Belmont, I was working part-time at the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum and interning for CBS Records (which eventually became Sony Music Nashville).

Take me through your career path from your internship at CBS Records.

After I graduated from Belmont in May of 1980, I took a part-time mailroom position at CBS Records Nashville, and a few months later was promoted to Publicity Coordinator. I ended up transferring to another division of CBS called Priority Records, followed by a few years at The Benson Company. I returned to CBS Records from 1987 through 1990, then started a management company; I managed The Tractors and Stacy Dean Campbell. I came back to the label publicity world when I came to Arista Nashville. Arista merged with RCA Label Group, which later became Sony BMG, which became Sony Music Nashville. (Laughs)

So I made it through several mergers. The last part of my tenure with Sony Music Nashville, which started with Arista, totals 23 years officially. But I also consulted with Arista for two years prior to becoming an employee, so that’s almost 25 years.

Who all have you worked with throughout your career?

When I first interned, I worked such as artists as George Jones, Tammy Wynette, Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard, Charlie Daniels, Johnny Cash, Rosanne Cash, Ricky Skaggs, Lynn Anderson, Lacy J. Dalton, Johnny Rodriguez, Larry Gatlin and The Gatlin Brothers Band, and Crystal Gayle.

Later, when I came back to CBS Records, we launched Mary Chapin Carpenter, Ricky Van Shelton, Shenandoah, Joe Diffie and Doug Stone. During the most recent part of my Sony Music Nashville tenure—the last 23 years—I’ve worked with Alan Jackson, Brooks & Dunn, Diamond Rio, Brad Paisley, Alabama, Sara Evans, Carrie Underwood, Kenny Chesney, Kane Brown, Maren Morris, Luke Combs, Old Dominion, Miranda Lambert, Mitchell Tenpenny and many more.

You recently announced that you will be retiring at the end of June. When you look back on your career, what are some moments that you’re most proud of?

What comes to mind immediately is how proud I am of the relationships that I’ve had—not just with artists—but with the people I’ve been fortunate enough to collaborate with along the way–ones who have mentored and challenged me, the people I have mentored, and the people who have supported me. Hopefully I’ve been a positive influence on them as they obviously have been on me. This is such a great business!

There have been some exciting times for Sony Music Nashville. It’s always great when you get to be a Label Of The Year, and we are so honored to have the reigning ACM and CMA Entertainers Of The Year this last year with Miranda and Luke. Those moments are very special, but also some of the most special times have been knowing you’re at the beginning of something. When things start happening for artists… it’s just such a wonderful feeling when an artist has their “first”—whether it’s their first No. 1, Gold or Platinum certification, award nomination or trophy, cover feature or national TV appearance.

How do you want to be remembered as you leave us?

Obviously during COVID, I’ve had a lot of time to think. I spent some time thinking about when the right time to do this would be. Over the years, I hope that most people would think that I was helpful, supportive, that I was a good listener, that I treated them honestly, and that I gave them the attention that was needed. That I responded appropriately and that I didn’t drag my feet. I also hope that there are people out there that would still like to go have lunch or grab a coffee in the future.

When I decided to retire and Randy Goodman asked when I would like to tell the team here, I had the opportunity to do it in the rotunda at the Country Music Hall of Fame [during a company-wide] dinner. For me, after being a tour guide my senior year of Belmont, that seemed very appropriate. I was able to look around the room and see [some artists that I’ve worked with] who have become Hall of Fame members. That was very special. But the team members in that room were the ones I was most proud of. There were a lot of people in the rotunda who I’ve worked with for years—some over 20 years. It’s such a wonderful feeling–that I honestly do feel like these are friends. Friendships mean so much to me. That’s what I’ll think about the rest of my life.

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

 

This edition of “My Music Row Story” is sponsored by Worldwide Stages.

 

Chris Kappy is the founder and owner of management company Make Wake Artists, and is in his sixth year as manager for superstar Luke Combs. During that time, he has grown the Make Wake roster by adding the talents of Niko Moon, Hailey Whitters, Drew Parker, Flatland Cavalry, Jackie Lee, Tyler Dial, Red Shahan, The Panhandlers and Keller Cox.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Stone Mountain, Georgia. I was born in Texas and lived there for two years. We moved to St. Louis and lived there for two years. My dad worked for the airlines. We moved to Georgia when I was five so I grew up in Stone Mountain.

I ended up going to Georgia State University. It was a commuter school then, now it’s a traditional campus. That’s where my love for music started. I grew up in a household of music. My mom was a big believer in The Temptations, the Four Tops, Otis Redding, and Gladys Knight. My dad listened to big band music. As I was coming up, I was listening to pop radio. Z-93 and 96 Rock out of Atlanta were the stations I was listening to.

What got you interested in country music?

I met a girl in college that introduced me to the band BlackHawk, and I was like, “What is this magic?” The harmonies were insane. “Goodbye Says It All” was the first song of their’s I ever heard. Then I started digging into country music and I really fell in love with bands like Shenandoah, Diamond Rio, and Little Texas. That’s the world I got into as I was listening to everything from Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Hootie and The Blowfish, and Sister Hazel. I fell in love with country.

How did you get into the music business?

In 2000 I was working in IT selling web hosting and stuff like that. I was killing it, I was doing very well for myself for my late twenties. A good friend of mine, Andy Levine, said, “You should come work for me. We’re gonna do this thing called The Rock Boat where we put bands on a cruise ship and go out to sea with their fans. I’ll pay you a third of what you’re making now, but you’ll be in the music business.” I was like, “Man, that’s a great idea. I should do this.” And I did. I quit my job and I went to go work for Andy. That started a 15-year relationship with bands and their fans on a cruise ship in the ocean.

Sister Hazel was the catalyst. They were my college band that I fell in love with. I would travel to go see them play anywhere and everywhere. To this day, I still am very close with all the guys in the band. We’re all very good friends and I still love their music. I learned from them how important it was to have the relationship with the fan. Their big hit was “All For You.” They had all these unbelievable songs, but they had a relationship with their fans that was beautiful. They cared so much about them and then they created The Rock Boat. From that event, it spawned off to Kiss, John Mayer, Florida Georgia Line, Paramore and 311. So for 15 years, I traveled with rabid fan bases, took 2,500 of their biggest fans on vacation, and essentially gave them a backstage pass for four days in the Caribbean. I thought I had the greatest job in the world.

How did you end up in management?

I was living in Huntington Beach, California when I got a phone call from a buddy of mine named Bradley Jordan. Bradley calls me and says, “You’ve always wanted be a manager your whole life. That’s all you’ve ever talked about and you’re not doing it. You’re in your early forties. If you don’t do this, you’re going to regret it.” I was like, “Man, you’re right.” You have to have a friend like that to be able to tell you that. I packed everything up, broke my lease and moved to Athens, Georgia in November of 2014.

Bradley was [promoting] a Sam Hunt show at the Georgia Theater. This is when Sam was just blowing up. He put the show up for sale on Oct. 31 and it sold out in four minutes. He had me that day as the runner for that show, so I’m driving Brad and Sam all over town. I saw the kind of relationship they had and I was like, “I can do this.” I didn’t know what a point was on an album, I had no idea what a publishing deal was, but I remembered [a conversation I had] on a cruise with Brandi Carlile. Brandi and I had become very good friends and I remember talking to her asking, “Do you think I could do this?” She goes, “Kappy, I don’t even know what points are. I don’t care. You can do this.” That’s what I needed to hear.

[A little while later], I get a phone call and it’s Bradley. He said, “I found your guy. His name is Luke Combs.”

What was your first meeting with Luke like?

[We organized a show for Luke.] He shows up with the band in the van. They unload and start loading in and I meet Luke. He’s a nice guy. They’re starting to soundcheck and I’m like, “This guy can flat out sing!” I got to experience that moment that you have when you see Luke for the first time. The charisma and the passion that he had was there without even being in show mode. The show was awesome. I was like, “This is the guy. I want to manage this guy. I’ve got to get him another show to show him that I have some yank.”

[After another show,] I told him, “I’d like to manage you.” He goes, “What do you know about management?” I said, “Not a lot, but I got you this show. I’ve been around a lot of managers. I know that I can work just as hard as they can. I can be just as passionate as they can. Nobody will out-care me or out-appreciate what you bring to the table and we’ll do this together.”

He said, “Let me go talk to three managers in Nashville.” So he came to talk to three managers here in Nashville and all of them said he was a songwriter. He calls me up and says, “Hey, I met with all three managers.” I said, “What’d they say?” He goes, “You tell me what you want then I’ll tell you what they want.” I was like, “I want you to stand on stage every night and sing your songs, just like you do, and connect with the crowd. I’ll handle everything else.” He goes, “You’re my manager.”

I moved here Sept. 6 of 2016 and we got started.

What was it like when you guys got to Nashville?

Early on I asked Luke what one of his goals were. He’s like, “Man, I drive this piece of crap Dodge Neon. I need a safe car. I don’t know if the brakes are going to work, it doesn’t have AC, and I have to drive this to writes and I hate it because people see me in this and this isn’t indicative of who I am.” I was like, “Alright, I won’t take any commission from you until we can buy you a new car—however long that takes.” I wasn’t rich. I had a small amount in savings and thought things would get going pretty quickly.

So we started and we had no money coming in. We had just enough money to pay the bills and if we didn’t have enough, I would pull money out of my savings to put gas in the van and stuff like that. Soon I am destitute. I have less than $50 to my name. Every night I’m taking the merch bin to the green room and taking all the food and water and stuff that’s left behind and putting it in there so I have something to eat. No one ever knew. Every penny that came in that was left over went into a Maxwell House coffee can that sat on top of Luke’s refrigerator. We would just stack cash in there. We were doing that and I was bleeding my account dry trying to figure it out. I sold stuff and did whatever I could to just make it work. I was driving our Sprinter van everywhere because I [had to sell] my car. I was going to meetings in this giant Sprinter and people were just laughing at me, but I couldn’t let Luke know that.

We saved enough money. We had $15,000 and we bought a 2013 Ford Fusion for him. That next weekend we did a show. We had $500 left over and Luke goes, “I got my car now. Take commission.” It was $75 bucks and I felt like I was Mark Cuban. The very next day we got a phone call that somebody had pulled out of an ATV park show and they were desperate to get somebody, so we got a $10,000 offer. Three days later we got an offer to play a private for a guy whose daughter was graduating high school. He offered us an obscene amount of money. Instantly we made all this money and I was like, “We’re gonna make it.”

Now Luke is one of the biggest stars in our format, and you’ve added more artists and team members to your management company. Did you ever see yourself building out Make Wake to what it is now?

Absolutely not. I had no idea that it was going to turn into this. As I sit around my office and see the Niko Moon plaques, and I see the shows for Hailey Whitters, Flatland Cavalry and Drew Parker… I never thought I’d come to town and create a management company that would have 10 artists on the roster and 17 full-time employees. That was never a part of the plan. I have the weight of the careers of our artists on my shoulders and the weight of the employees that I have to take care of for them and their families. I never thought that I would ever have to worry about that stuff.

It doesn’t scare me, it’s just a lot to deal with. I’m lucky I have fantastic people out there that I can call on. I’m the first person to say if I don’t know something. I have great people that I can pick up the phone and call. I talk to either Kerri Edwards, John Peets, Clarence Spalding, or Marion Kraft once a week.

What’s something people might not know about you?

I lost 200 pounds. That’s something people might not know about. I ended up having gastric bypass surgery. I didn’t have good control of my weight, it was an unhealthy relationship. I knew that I needed to get control of it.

I remember being in the hospital after getting it done and being so depressed. I was thinking, “I can’t believe I just had to do this. You were such a loser. You couldn’t get this done.” Then I thought, “No, this is not how you need to be thinking. You just didn’t have a handle on it. You didn’t have control. You needed to get control and you got control.” I’ll see people now who haven’t seen me in forever and they’ll be like, “Woah, I didn’t even recognize you.” I talk about it because I want people to know that there shouldn’t be a stigma around it.

If someone was to ask you what your definition of success was, what would you say?

Being able to shop at Whole Foods without looking at prices. (Laughs)

When you sit with an artist and you’re like, “What are your dreams? What are your passions? What are your goals?,” and you can accomplish those. Some of them are extremely realistic, some of them are over the moon, but if you’re able to do that, that’s success. Seeing an artist on stage, seeing their fans sing their songs back to them—they’re so elated and they come off the stage and they’re like, “They were singing my songs!” That’s it, man. There’s nothing better than that.