My Music Row Story: CAA’s Meredith Jones Long

Meredith Jones Long

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Meredith Jones Long is a Music Agent at leading entertainment and sports agency Creative Artists Agency (CAA). Based in CAA’s Nashville office, Jones Long also books the greater mountain state region for the agency’s country, classic rock and Americana rosters. She represents successful acts, including Little Big TownWhiskey Myers, Lori McKenna, Hailey Whitters, Wyatt Flores, Southall and more.

Jones Long graduated magna cum laude from Belmont University, receiving a Bachelor of Business Administration with an emphasis on music business. She just celebrated 16 years at CAA, having started her career at the agency in 2007. Jones Long was then promoted to Agent in 2012.

Her dedication to inclusiveness is evident throughout her work, both externally and within CAA. She has led the team that created THE HUBB, a networking and professional development summit that was designed to provide diverse internship- and career-ready college students with the tools and resources needed to successfully enter the music business. She also serves on the Executive Committee of the PENCIL Foundation Board, an organization that connects the local business community and Metro Nashville Public Schools through partnerships and programs.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Hockessin, Delaware, which is in the greater Philadelphia region. I was really into music growing up, and actually played French horn and sang pretty poorly in like a children’s church choir.

Pictured (L–R): Kylen Sharpe, Meredith Long and Katie Germano

I learned piano from my grandmother, who was an organist at her church in St. Michaels, Maryland, which is on the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay. She was very much into classical music and playing music for her grandkids. She helped motivate me and a lot of my cousins to foray into music.

What was high school like?

My high school in Delaware, AI DuPont, had an incredible marching band that was very large. We had a horrible football team because everybody wanted to be in the band. [Laughs] My band director had pushed the program to be elite, and we got to do really fun things like march in the St. Patrick’s Day Parade in Dublin, the London New Year’s Day Parade and the Orange Bowl in Florida. We did concert band trips to Montreal and Toronto. As a teenager, getting a little freedom with your friends to run around in a foreign country was awesome.

Meredith Long with Whiskey Myers and team

Did you know you wanted a career in the music business then?

I fell really hard into country music in middle school, starting with Garth Brooks. In high school, I took it to a new level of exploration. I think part of me wanted to go against the grain of what everyone else thought was cool on MTV. I had a couple friends that were into country music, so we banded together and shared artists we were listening to and enjoying. Some of my first concerts were Kenny Chesney at the amphitheater in Hershey, Pennsylvania and Tim McGraw at the arena in Philly with The Chicks.

I heard about Belmont University through my dad’s cousin, who had a Lee Greenwood cut. He randomly showed up during one of our summer vacations and I was telling him that I was interested in music, but I wasn’t exactly sure if I was good at music. He was like, “You should move to Nashville and go to Belmont University.” On a whim, I came down here with my parents and toured it. I just felt the community of Nashville and that college immediately.

I remember seeing Jason Aldean in the house band at a bar on 2nd Avenue when I was here for orientation. We got his demo and my mom said, “You need to get it signed!”

Pictured (L–R): Meredith Long, Hailey Whitters and Kylen Sharpe

Tell me about your time at Belmont.

Ashley Gorley was my publishing teacher. He had just gotten a few cuts with Carrie Underwood—this girl who won American Idol. [Laughs] I was actually in that publishing class with a bunch of executives that I run into and do business with now, which is really fun.

I really liked some of the core business classes, especially the number-driven ones like economics and accounting, as well as the marketing-driven business classes. There wasn’t a class on live music at the time, and I think the little rebel in me was like, “That’s what I want to do.” My advisor said, “You don’t want to be an agent. Agents are mean!” Then I really wanted to be an agent.

I started trying to use some relationships that I had. My internship boss [knew I wanted to be an agent] and said to me one day, “I’m in Bible study with this guy who runs an agency. His name is John Huie. I’ll introduce you.” That one introduction changed everything.

Meredith Long & Wyatt Flores

What happened?

I started as an intern filing paperwork. At the time we printed every single part of a show: the deposit slips, contracts, deal memos and offers. Everything fit into a file folde,r and we had to title all the folders with the artist name, show date, venue and city. There were cabinets all over the office.

I would get done and then have nothing to do, which was probably frustrating for the HR Director, but I would go around to all the assistants and just say, “What can I do?” I organized the CD closet, made grids of tour dates and other little projects here and there. A lot of those young assistants are now my colleagues, like Jeff Krones and Bobby Cory, and Brett Saliba [who is now at UTA]. I just started being a helpful hand. I would get them lunch if they wanted—I didn’t care.

What was next?

I did the Belmont West program, taking my last semester in Los Angeles. There I interned for a manager that wanted to hire me, but I got a call from CAA Nashville saying, “Hey, we have a receptionist position opening up. Would you like an opportunity for that job?” I was like, “Absolutely.” I loved everybody I hung out with there. They were interested in and passionate about the same things I was. I really didn’t even know what an agent did, but I wanted to learn more. So I ended up taking that job and starting the day after graduation. 17 years later, I’m still here.

Pictured (L–R): Matt Stubbs, Meredith Jones Long, Tyler Braden, Kylen Sharpe, Allie Petko, Chris Burrus and Halie Hampton Mosely

How did you know you were in the right field?

Lady A was an unknown trio in town, and they were friends with one of the assistants who is now Head of Country Music at Amazon Music, Michelle Tigard Kammerer. At the old office, we had this thing called The Pit where all the assistant desks were, with all the agent offices were around it. CAA would invite young artists to play acoustically in The Pit—it was kind of a gauntlet thing. Michelle had Lady A come perform and they blew our socks off. She ended up helping them get signed at CAA and assisting with some of the early strategy. Watching the growth of their career is where I remember seeing how this all works.

What did you do as a receptionist?

It was fun. In classic Meredith form, they were like, “Here’s what you have to do.” I was like, “Great, I can do all of that in five minutes. What else can I do?” You’re kind of the frontline of the agency, so you have to be a good face. You get weird phone calls because your number is on artists’ websites, so having intuition mattered. I would also pick up random jobs around the office so that I could be more visible and be around all my colleagues. I was there for about six months before I moved onto the next position.

Meredith Long & Lori McKenna

What was that?

It’s a position that doesn’t exist anymore, but Ticket Accounts. Before Ticketmaster and Axis had a fancy system where you can log in and see how your artist sales are progressing, my job was calling box offices and saying, “It’s me again! How many tickets has Martina McBride sold since we last spoke?” Then I would put them all into grid format so the agents could be tracking sales and understanding where marketing needed to be spent. Then I moved on from that to an assistant.

What was that like?

Scott Clayton was the first desk I had. He promoted Buster Phillips, who was going to start the college division and see if there was real business there. I became Buster’s assistant when that was created, so we trucked along together in the early days, trying to figure out the players.

I would get all the phone calls from the 19-year-olds running their college division in their student activities groups. I would have to tell them that they couldn’t afford Katy Perry, but we can talk about a young bubbling artist. It was a great education for me to learn how to deal with buyers that aren’t established yet. It was also great to learn what was happening and what college students were interested in. Some of our bosses in L.A. and New York were calling and asking, “Who are the college kids talking about and asking for?” It ended up being a really valuable resource and a big business.

From there, I got promoted to take over and do that job when Buster moved on to a different territory. Then I got promoted to Agent in 2012.

Meredith Long & Just Jayne

What was that transition like?

At the time, our training program sent us out to L.A. to work in the physical mail room there and learn the ropes of the whole agency, not just the music department. It took you out of your comfort zone and allowed you to network with a lot of other people with your same level of experience in all the different departments. It was brilliant and I loved it.

I came back to Nashville gung ho. I started signing clients in country music. Four years later, CAA pulled me out of the college world to give it to the next generation and keep me focused on country.

Who were the first clients you signed?

My first client was Chase Rice. He’s no longer a client, but I have deep love for that guy and the rise that we shared together. I worked with Maren Morris from the get go. I worked with Whiskey Myers after they had been a band for a few years. They were focused on Texas but I saw a vision outside of that, so they signed with me and we’ve developed a pretty strong business for those guys, internationally as well. I joined the Little Big Town team alongside Darin Murphy. I learned a lot from Darin and have more recently stepped in to run point on their career.

I’ve had a lot of fun being a part of developing artist’s teams. I’ve been on Hailey Whitters‘ team. We got her on Maren’s tour very early before she even had music out. I’ve been a part of Carter Faith‘s journey and Wyatt Flores. I was brought onto Shaboozey‘s team—he’s been a client for many years with Jenna Adler, and when he started writing songs with country themes a few years ago, I joined the team . He’s having an unbelievable ride, and he so deserves it.

Meredith Long & daughter, Evelyn

What is your favorite part of your job now?

Being alongside these clients for years and watching the many iterations they’ve had, either musically or touring, those moments are absolutely the driver for me. What really sustains me, though, is the culture of this company and being here with the individuals that I get to sit around with and learn from. I’ve been working alongside a lot of them for all 17 years. I’ve been supported by them and never felt alone in a down moment. That’s a super important part of why I come in and do this job every day.

Who have been your mentors?

I’ve learned a lot from Darin and Jeff Krones. Doing business with Andrew Simon taught me a lot. Marlene Tsuchii has taught me so much.

What advice would you give someone who wants to do what you do?

I spoke to a student recently and told her two of the major qualities of a good agent are that they’re a good people person and an intelligent person. People have to like them, want be around them and trust them with their business, but agents also have to be incredibly intelligent on deal-making and have the ability to think outside the box with tour packaging or deal structures. It’s a numbers and a people job.

It’s not to be mean?

No! [Laughs] That’s not a quality! Maybe that’s from Entourage.

My Music Row Story: EMPIRE’s Heather Vassar

Heather Vassar. Photo: Sam Frawley

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Heather Vassar serves as Senior Vice President of EMPIRE and brings over a decade of experience in the music industry to her role. With a Master’s degree in business specializing in marketing, Vassar’s career commenced at UMG Nashville, where she initially excelled in digital marketing. Over six years, she advanced to spearheading strategic initiatives and research, focusing on optimizing release workflows and leveraging competitive advantages. Her contributions led to pioneering analyses and innovations that shaped the industry. Notably, Vassar contributed to digital strategy for renowned artists such as George Strait, Luke Bryan, Carrie Underwood, Kacey Musgraves, Chris Stapleton and Keith Urban.

In 2019, she was tapped by EMPIRE to establish and elevate their Nashville division. Here, Vassar plays a pivotal role in operations, marketing and promoting EMPIRE’s presence in Music City, steering strategies for a diverse roster, including record-breaking artist Shaboozey, Wyatt Flores, Niko Moon, Sophia Scott, Don Louis, Reyna Roberts, Tenille Arts and Randy Houser. She oversees all facets of label operations, artist signings, marketing plans, release strategies and development in addition to driving digital marketing initiatives, pioneering efforts in Web3 and managing key partnerships with sales and streaming platforms.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in west Texas. I was born and raised in a really small town, my parents and grandparents are still there. I got my undergraduate degree at Texas Tech in Lubbock, which is about two hours from home.

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

What did you study?

Marketing. I was big into sports growing up, and I went to Tech to play softball. I come from an accounting family, so they advised me to go to the business school. I thought, “I won’t do accounting, that sounds miserable, but I could do marketing and management. That’s way better than accounting.”

How did music come into play?

I’ve always been a big music fan. When I was young, I could hear a commercial and could sing the jingle back. My parents noticed that early on, but I was really into sports so I focused on that. I participated in music at church and I took piano lessons, but I didn’t know that music could be a career.

When I quit playing softball at Tech, I picked up guitar and started playing in a band. All of my electives were music courses and songwriting classes. I knew it was a gift, I just didn’t know what to do with it. My parents ended up flying me to Nashville for a songwriting contest and I loved it. I graduated from undergrad that May and by August I was living in Nashville.

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

What did you do when you got here?

I just started writing and was working on a Christian album. I was still working online for my family’s CPA firm to pay the bills and quickly realized that music wasn’t going to make me much money in the beginning. There was no revenue coming in for as much effort as I was putting in. But I met some great people who started to teach me the business, like Brandon Ray and Don Koch.

I was a fine songwriter and I have a great ear, but I wasn’t cut out for the Nashville world yet. I decided it wasn’t for me, but that I was going to work in music in some capacity. I ended up going to grad school at Belmont. That’s when I got my first job at Universal.

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

Tell me about that.

I just cold applied. I didn’t have a connection. I ended up getting a call from Tony Grotticelli in UMG’s Digital department. He ended up hiring me. I was taking night classes, so I’d work all day and then go to school from 6–10 p.m. It was an exciting time.

I did digital marketing for the first three or so years at UMG. Keith Urban was the first record that I worked and we went No. 1. It was a dream come true. Because of my numbers background, I ended up finding a little niche within the digital space. That’s when YouTube covers were really taking off and streaming was starting to ramp up. I started looking at the numbers of what we were running in digital advertising and social metrics. I remember starting George Strait‘s Instagram. I ran Universal socials for a couple of years and was just in the mix of it all. I was like a sponge trying to soak it all in.

I ended up being the numbers person because I can look at an Excel sheet and pull a story out of it, and I realized how valuable that is. I ended up moving over to report to Mike Harris and we launched a new Strategy & Research department, where we worked with all the departments. The radio team would come to me and say, “I need a reason why a station should play Jordan Davis over another artist.” I was able to look at all the numbers and say, “This is why.” I ended up being what I now call a “strategic storyteller.” That’s where I under started to understand the full scope of the business. I was so fortunate to learn under Mike Dungan and Mike Harris.

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

Then you were approached about helping to start EMPIRE’s Nashville division.

EMPIRE was starting a Nashville division. Eric Hurt [our VP of Publishing now] had started and signed Willie Jones. EMPIRE’s CEO, Ghazi, flew me out to San Francisco and I had a great meeting and a lot of questions. I wanted to know why an independent, hip-hop distribution company wanted to be in Nashville. I just didn’t know how successful it’d be, but I knew I wouldn’t let it fail. By the end of our first meeting together, I knew it was the next right step for me.

I told Ghazi before I left the meeting, “Give me five years to be profitable. It won’t be before that, but I need to know you’re committed to at least five years in this town and in this process. Otherwise, I can’t make the jump from UMG.” I left UMG in December of 2019.

What were those first few years like?

COVID hit three months later and at first I was like, “Oh my word. What have I done?” But I had never been busier. We were signing artists, and since we’re so focused on digital, [we didn’t have to slow down much]. I remember we shot a music video in a house with the director on FaceTime on a phone we suction cupped to the window. [Laughs] It was an interesting time.

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

Tenille Arts had been on my A&R list when I left UMG, so I hit her team up. She was already at radio and it was dwindling, so I helped put a plan together to revitalize the song and upcoming releases. Through that year, we got a country radio No. 1 and a Platinum record. That was our first win that showed me this could work. We also signed Shaboozey in 2020.

Tell me about your journey with him.

Shaboozey is one of the first artists that I’ve worked this closely with that holds so true to his convictions of who he is and the brand that he is. He’s incredibly intelligent and understands the world that he’s building. I’ve never met an another artist that moves that way and holds so tight to it. He’s a natural storyteller by film, music and movements.

It’s been so fun to have such a big hit with “A Bar Song (Tipsy).” I was at the Grammys at the beginning of the year when I first heard it as we were driving through L.A. A few weeks later, I went to New Orleans and met up with some friends, I had a work call and my friends were curious what I was working on, so I played them the song. I remember telling them it was going to be big but I had no idea it was going to be this big!

I just feel so grateful. I know it doesn’t come often and I also know that it may never come again in my career, so you just take it in stride and soak in as much as you can. At the same time, I’m also the one saying, “Keep your foot on the gas!”

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

What have you learned about leadership in the last five years?

I have an older sister, so when I was young, I would always play up on my sister’s teams. What I learned from that experience is you always play to the stage that you want to be on. That’s how you show up. I didn’t know how to spearhead an independent label division, I just knew how I would run a major if I was at a major. When I was figuring out what processes we needed in place at EMPIRE Nashville and how we should go from signing an artist to hiring team members… I just started operating at the level I wanted to be at. I tell artists and our team all the time: “work at the level that you want to be at, whatever title you want or whatever stage you want to play, show up and prove you deserve to be there.”

Ghazi met me in Dallas for the ACM Awards, and it had almost been four and a half years exactly to when I told him it would take me five. We had such a sweet moment reminiscing on that and being so proud we had done it.

What are you excited about now?

Of course I’m excited about what’s next with Shaboozey. We’re hoping for CMA Awards and Grammys leading into even the next wave of his music. There are also some other artists that I have that I think are next. CeCe is a new artist to EMPIRE that I’ve signed and the music is incredible. We have Don Louis‘ album that just came out and is doing so well, which is great. Jake & Shelby, a pop duo that we’re working with, have some of the best music coming out of Nashville in a long time. We’ve also got Jordy out in L.A. making incredible music too. I’m excited about all the music coming out and the team that we’re building. We’re getting to move in town in a way that hopefully feels refreshing.

Photo: Courtesy of Vassar

Who have been some of your mentors?

Mike Dungan for sure. Tina Davis here at EMPIRE has been so great. I’ve had a great executive coach, Shelley Till. I also have mentors and best friends outside of the business, like Adam Sansiveri, who runs Alliance Bernstein here in Nashville who has been an amazing advocate and support.

I’ve learned throughout my career that it’s really healthy to have networking groups, friends and mentors that are outside of this business. We can lose sight of what makes life meaningful and special in tunnels of work. For me, that was finding my core people. They don’t know much of what goes on in the music industry and I love that. They’re all incredible badasses in the worlds that they are in. It’s really fun to be a part of that, cheering one another on.

My Music Row Story: Robert K. Oermann

Robert K. Oermann

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Dubbed “the dean of Nashville’s entertainment journalists,” Robert K. Oermann has become one of Music City’s leading multi-media figures—a journalist, television personality, radio broadcaster, graphic artist, lecturer, photographer, archivist and author.

Oermann writes weekly columns for MusicRow Magazine and has been published in more than 100 other national periodicals. He has penned liner notes for more than 125 albums and boxed-set productions. His nine books to date include the New York Times best-selling Songteller with Dolly Parton (2020), the award-winning Finding Her Voice with Mary A. Bufwack (2003), A Century of Country (1999) and America’s Music (1996).

Oermann has scripted and/or directed more than 50 television specials and documentaries for CMT, CBS, the BBC, TBS, TNN and others, and he appears frequently on-camera as a commentator on VH-1, A&E, CMT and the BBC.

The University of Pittsburgh graduate worked as an advertising manager for the Discount Records retailer in St. Louis, Missouri in the 1970s. After obtaining his Masters degree, Oermann moved to Nashville in 1978 to become the Head of Technical Services at the Country Music Hall of Fame’s Library. In 1981-’93, he was the all-genre music reporter at The Tennessean and the founding country-music writer for USA Today. Oermann began working in television production during this same period.

His projects have included scripting the 2000 CBS TV special celebrating the 75th anniversary of the Grand Ole Opry, penning the liner notes for the Grammy-winning O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack album in 2001 and co-writing Little Miss Dynamite, the autobiography of 2002 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductee Brenda Lee. He was a judge on the 2003 USA Network series Nashville Star, which launched the career of Miranda Lambert. In 2004 he wrote the PBS special celebrating George Jones and was the music supervisor and script writer for the United Stations syndicated radio series Honest Country, narrated by Willie Nelson. He was a writer/director of the six-hour TBS documentary series America’s Music: The Roots of Country, narrated by Kris Kristofferson.

Among Oermann’s projects in 2005-’10 were writing and/or hosting PBS specials about Patsy Cline, Marty Robbins and John Denver. He scripted the A&E Biography specials on Billy Ray Cyrus and Carrie Underwood. He co-hosted the PBS fund-drive broadcasts of Chet Atkins: Certified Guitar Player (alongside pop superstar Michael McDonald) and Opry Memories (alongside Country Hall of Fame member Bill Anderson). Behind the Grand Ole Opry Curtain was published in the fall of 2008 as Oermann’s eighth book.

In 2013, he scripted and co-directed Dolly Parton: Song By Song, a six-part documentary series for the Ovation arts channel. In 2016, he was the second-unit director of the streamed-concert series Skyville Live, which featured Cyndi Lauper, Gregg Allman, Chris Stapleton, Gladys Knight, Little Big Town, Taj Mahal, Martina McBride and Delbert McClinton, among others. He co-hosted the Children of Song podcast marketed by Fox News Radio in 2017-’18. During 2019 he worked in various capacities on documentaries about The Bluebird Cafe, The Florabama nightclub, Loretta Lynn, Dallas Frazier and Kenny Rogers. Also in 2019, he was a script consultant for the 16-hour PBS documentary Country Music by famed filmmaker Ken Burns.

His acclaimed Songteller: My Life in Lyrics book with Dolly Parton was published in November 2020. He was a consultant on the 2023 PBS documentary about Minnie Pearl and served in the same capacity for the American Masters documentary about Brenda Lee in 2024.

Oermann has been active on various boards throughout his career, such as the Nashville Public Library, the Country Music Association, the Recording Academy, WPLN Radio, Leadership Music and the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. He has been honored by various organizations over the years for excellence in media and entertainment.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. My dad taught at the University of Pittsburgh, where I ended up going. My mother was a pediatric nurse.

But my mother’s mother, Grammy Clara Lowe, had a music store in Dubois, Pennsylvania. It was the only music store for counties and counties around, so they sold everything. They had records, sheet music, song books, instruments and anything to do with music.

They also had a jukebox chain. There were jukeboxes in all the bars in those western Pennsylvania and West Virginia towns. My mother had four brothers: Chubb, Luther, Corny and Bill. They rode around and would stock Polka, hillbilly or R&B records, depending on what bar they were in. I would ride with them sometimes. I would also clerk in the store whenever I was there in the summertime and around Christmas. She paid me in used jukebox records, which I loved. That’s how I started collecting records and how I got passionate about the music business.

Robert K. Oermann and Naomi Judd. Photo: Courtesy of Oermann

What were you like as a kid?

I was very shy and very thin. My brothers and sister are all six footers, so I was the runt of the litter. I drew pictures and listened to records alone in my room a lot. I would study the labels, and notice names like Boudleaux and Felice Bryant and Billy Sherrill. I got to know these names. I was interested in all kinds of music, but in high school, I really fell for R&B.

In college, I started reading about the history of rock and roll and learned that it was a fusion of R&B and country. I read about Red Foley, Hank Williams and Kitty Wells, and realized I had records by them that I never played. So I went home from college and got them out. I played Hank Williams and I got it! I thought, “Oh, this is white people’s soul music.” I became really passionate about it at that point.

What happened after college?

I went to St. Louis and got a job at Discount Records. They had a policy of stocking at least one copy of every record in print. Nobody in the store knew anything about country or classical music, so I became their country and classical person because I knew both of those areas fairly well. I did that and I painted for 10 years. [My wife] Mary [Bufwack] was teaching women’s studies in college.

Robert K. Oermann, Dolly Parton and Mary Bufwack. Photo: Courtesy of Oermann

I realized if we had to live on what I was making, we would starve to death, so I went back to Syracuse University and got a Masters degree in information studies. In that program, you took half of your coursework in library and archival work and the other half in whatever you wanted. They had the Newhouse School Of Public Communications there which had everything, so I took film, video, animation, photography and recording studio technology. I didn’t realize it, but I was preparing myself.

At that time, upstate New York was a huge country music area. On the way back and forth between Colgate and Syracuse—at least an hour drive each way—all the stations were playing country. So I started knowing every single country hit that was on the radio. I was getting more and more immersed in country music.

How did you get to Nashville?

I was really digging Loretta, Dolly and Tammy, so Mary and I decided to combine our interests and write a book about women in country music. We got a list of record collectors across the country and a list of archives where there were collections of folk and country music. We went off across the nation and stopped at about every place. It was a massive educational trip.

When we stopped in Nashville, the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum’s library was looking for someone who had a library degree specializing in non-print media and who was an encyclopedia of popular music. I said, “That would be me.” That’s how we got here in 1978.

Robert K. Oermann is honored with the Keynote Award during the 2016 Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame gala. Photo: Bev Moser

How did you start writing in Nashville?

Most of the people that used that library were writers, so I got to know most of the writing community here at the time. I would read what they wrote and think, “I could do that.” So I started writing on the side while I was still at the library, particularly for Country Song Roundup and Country Music Magazine.

My friend John Lomax had pitched Esquire magazine for a piece on the 100 most influential people in country music, so the two of us wrote it. Within three years of writing in town, I was published in Rolling Stone and Esquire.

Lomax helped me so much—he believed in me. He had one of the first alternative newspapers in Nashville called the Nashville Gazette. He published me in that and my first feature was Brenda Lee. I started writing more and more, and then a job opened at The Tennessean.

Tell me about that.

I applied and so did 250 other people. The editor of that section of The Tennessean was a guy named Gene Wyatt. He didn’t like people with journalism degrees, he liked people that knew their subject area and who could work the beat. By then, I had been doing profiles on songwriters for publishing companies and writing bios for executives and producers, so I knew the Row pretty well.

So he hired me and Sandy Neese to be the two country music reporters at The Tennessean. That was in July. In September, USA Today started [and became The Tennessean’s parent company] and I went from never having been in a newspaper office to being in the national newspaper. That’s also when the big country music explosion happened in the ‘80s. I was just in the right place at the right time. I stayed there until ‘81.

Robert K. Oermann, Taylor Swift and Mary Bufwack. Photo: Courtesy of Oermann

David Ross started MusicRow Magazine in ‘81. You became a contributor shortly thereafter and have remained part of our family since then. Tell me about the early days of MusicRow.

David had started this directory with contacts for audio rental services and whatnot. When I was still the librarian at the library, he came by and asked if we would carry it in the library. After the first or second edition, he decided to put some editorial in it. Al Cooley, who worked at Combine Music, did an issue where he was the record reviewer. After the first reviews came out, Al said, “Wait a minute. I’m a song publisher. I could get in some serious hot water doing this.” He came to me and asked if I would take over the column. Then it started to grow. Kerry O’Neil did a financial column, I did record reviews and David did the news.

MusicRow grew and prospered and I just stayed with it. It’s still one of my favorite gigs. I believe in the publication. It’s an extremely valuable source, knitting the community together, which is needed more now than ever. It’s a local publication and it helps the community understand each other. I really believe in it, both as a journalist and as a sociologist.

In addition to being a prolific writer, you’ve also done a lot of work in television and other media arts. How did you diversify?

The Women in Country Music book came out in ‘94. It won awards and made a big splash. I met this guy named Bud Schaetzle through Bob Doyle and Pam Lewis. Bud was a television producer, and he had this idea to do a special on women in country music. So Mary and I did this two-hour special for CBS, and that opened the television door.

At that same time, Tipper Gore was on a big tangent about sinful lyrics poisoning our children’s minds. Channel 5 had me come on TV every Friday to talk about the concerts that were going to be in town for the weekend, and should little Susie be allowed to go to the Poison concert? [Laughs] I always said sure!

Robert K. Oermann is honored with the Storytellers Award. Photo: Courtesy of Oermann

I got hired by Lorianne Crook and Charlie Chase to be a weekly reviewer for them. I would come on once a week and talk about the latest records that had come out.

I hated being on camera—still do—I wanted to produce and direct. I finally got my wish and started doing that a lot. I was doing EPKs and television specials. TNN and CMT came to town, which brought opportunities because they needed content all the time. I also had a radio show on WSM.

I look back now and wonder how I did all of this at the same time. It was about being in the right place at the right time, but I worked hard. I could outwork anybody. I loved the music so much that I wanted to be part of it. I wanted to be here so badly.

Who helped mentor you in the beginning?

There was a publisher named Don Gant. I would go over there and hang out and he would teach me how things worked. Back in those days, you could pretty much go into anybody’s office, sit down and listen to music. Lomax was a huge help, particularly on the writing side. On the TV side, Lorianne Crook, Charlie Chase and Jim Owens were very encouraging.

You have authored and contributed to so many country music books. Most recently you co-authored Dolly Parton, Songteller: My Life in Lyrics. Tell me about that experience.

That book was hard work. It had a tight deadline and there were lots of clearances I had to get. But it’s a beautiful book. Dolly is a total pro. She would outwork me. We’d be doing an interview and it would get to be five o’clock. I would say, “Let’s stop here and pick up tomorrow.” She would say, “No, let’s keep going!” She will outwork anyone. That was a fun project.

Who have been some of your favorite interviews through the years?

Dolly is a great interview. She’s a great role model for everyone—we should all be that nice and good-hearted. I love Bill Anderson. Jeannie Seely is always a ball. Randy Travis and I were very close. Vince Gill is great. Kathy Mattea is an old friend. Steve Earle and I were tight. Those relationships were forged in a time when the industry wasn’t nearly what it is today. It was small and special.

What projects are you most proud of?

The Women in Country special is a beautiful project. It’s really moving. When the Recording Academy was starting its oral history program, they hired me to do a documentary called Nashville Songwriter, which I’m also very proud of. I interviewed so many early songwriters, like Marijohn Wilkin, Felice Bryant, Harlan Howard, Hank Cochran, Cindy Walker and all the greats. I made it into chapters about the creative process, how the money happens, what a publishing deal is, etc. I love that project.

Of the books, I will always be proud of the Dolly book. Before I came to Nashville, I was listening to country radio all the time. There were three new people coming along at that time: Kris Kristofferson, Tom T. Hall and Dolly Parton. They were writing songs that were just another level up. That was an inspiration for me to get to Nashville, so I’ll always be proud of that project.

My Music Row Story: UTA’s Elisa Vazzana

Elisa Vazzana

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Elisa Vazzana is an Agent in the Music department at United Talent Agency, where she unites ideas, opportunities and talent. Based in the Nashville office, Vazzana represents many of the world’s leading musicians, including Megan Moroney, Chayce Beckham, Logan Crosby and Adam Doleac, among others.

She started her career at CAA in 2008, was later promoted to the trainee program in Los Angeles in 2012. Due to her sharp attention to detail and tenacity, Vazzana rose to Agent in 2013. After a nearly 14-year tenure, she was tapped to lead UTA’s Fair & Festival department, making her influential in booking the agency’s music clients at numerous events in the eastern territory of the United States and eastern Canada.

Vazzana has been at the center of major deals for her clients, including Moroney’s debut tour that sold out in minutes as well as appearances on ESPN’s College GameDay and The Paul Finebaum Show and more. Reaching beyond the traditional booking agent role, she was also responsible for Moroney’s first DSP playlisting on Apple Music, which launched the signing of a historic record deal with Sony Music Nashville and Columbia New York.

Devoted to helping others, Vazzana is heavily involved in charitable organizations. She serving meals to the homeless as a  Nashville Rescue Mission volunteer and works with the Pencil Foundation, which serves underfunded schools and their teachers. Vazzana is also a member of Justice Now, an internal task force within UTA’s Music department that aims to address systemic racism in the industry through four pillars of education, mentorship, empowerment and fearless imagination, as well as La Femme Majeure, a UTA event series that connects and empowers music’s next generation of women leaders. In 2009, she founded the Nashville chapter of Rhythm of Hope, a partnership between The Lollipop Foundation and Vanderbilt Children’s Hospital that brought songwriters and pediatric patients together to create one-of-a-kind songs.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I was born in Mandeville, Louisiana, which is right outside of New Orleans. I moved to Phoenix in the fifth grade.

Megan Moroney & Elisa Vazzana. Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

Were you into music?

I was. My dad exposed me to a lot of classic rock, and my mom exposed me to a lot of hot AC. My grandfather was a symphony composer, and my aunts all played in their respective symphonies in their cities. I was the only one in my family that listened to country.

How did that happen?

I went on a camping trip with some family friends when I was around seven or eight years old, and my neighbor had the Patsy Cline Greatest Hits CD and a Mary Chapin Carpenter album. I remember singing “The Bug” and just really latching onto that. Absolutely obsessed with the genre, I came back from that trip as the only kid who listened to country.

Pictured (L–R): Taylor Krebs (UTA), Elisa Vazzana, Hayley Corbett (PunchBowl Entertainment), Tali Canterbury (No Rules Management) and Logan Crosby. Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

Did you always know you wanted to pursue a career in it?

I knew I loved music and live shows, but I had no idea that being an agent was a job. As a kid, my dad kept telling me I should be an attorney, which made sense because I’m a great negotiator—I’m very direct and I’m aggressive. So I thought I could an entertainment lawyer. That’s as close as I thought I would get to it. Then when I was in middle and high school, I learned what A&R was from a How to Break Into the Music Business DVD. I really dug into that because I’m a sucker for a great song and a great voice. I wanted be the person that helps find the songs, create the album and identify the talent, but that’s not what I ended up doing.

How did you find your way into the business?

I went to school in Denver on a full-ride scholarship for soccer. I was working at a bar the summer before my freshman year for extra money and met an agent. I asked him what I should major in if I wanted to work in music. He said, “You don’t need a college degree. If you get to Nashville and you want help getting a job, you just give me a call.” So I left school.

When I got to town, I called him. He said, “You left school?” I said, “Yes, I am here. I don’t have any money. I don’t have a job, but you told me that you would help me if I got here. So I’m here.”

He said, “Oh my God. I can’t believe you did this. My brother has a band. They’re doing a music video and need a production assistant. Let me see if he’ll hire you to do that.” I think he felt terrible that I followed his advice, but that’s how I got here. [Laughs]

Elisa Vazzana & Brandi Brammer (UTA). Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

That’s incredible. How did you make it off the ground?

I started working as a production assistant in addition to bartending, waiting tables, cleaning houses and anything else I could possibly do to survive from the age of 19 to 22.

In that time, I was networking through these connections. A friend of mine called me and said, “Are you still looking for a job? My buddy at CAA needs an assistant.” I went in for an interview. It was $10 an hour, but you had full healthcare, so I said, “Sign me up!”

I thought I was going to use it as a launching pad to do something else because they’re so connected with every part of the business. Then I found a mentor there, Stan Barnett. He told me, “Look, I can’t teach you to know how well a song is written, or how to identify something at a writers’ round or hear something on a work tape and understand what it could be when it’s fully produced, but I can teach you deal math. I can teach you the basics of what we do. I think you would be very unique on the booking side because you can A&R from an agent’s perspective.”

Stan taught me how to be an honest agent without being a bully. He would say, “To be a great agent, you don’t have to lie and you don’t have to yell.” He didn’t look at it as sales. He looked at it as negotiating and enlightening people to what you believe is great. If not for Stan Barnett, I would not be an agent.

Pictured (L–R): Jensen Sussman (Sweet Talk Publicity), Hayley Corbett (PunchBowl Entertainment), Elisa Vazzana, Juli Griffith (PunchBowl Entertainment) and Megan Moroney. Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

How long were you an assistant?

I was Stan’s assistant for probably a year and a half. At that point, leadership at CAA came to me and asked if I wanted to be an Agent. I was booking dates for the $2,500 acts on his desk. I remember begging people to send me $500 support slots for Kip Moore and Old Dominion. So I [took them up on becoming an Agent], but I wanted to do it in the soft-ticket world because I felt like that was where I could really use my A&R brain.

I wanted to enlighten these buyers 12–18 months in advance on something that I thought was going to pop by the time their event played. I was able to build up a rapport with a lot of buyers where they would ask me who I thought was next. I was able to help them curate lineups in a way that I thought was really interesting as a fan of the genre. That’s how I got into it, and I’ve stayed in the soft-ticket space because I love it. You can expose your artists to a giant audience they wouldn’t have otherwise and show that audience what’s next.

Pictured (L–R): Scott Clayton (UTA), Brent Shows (ALTAR MGMT), George Pippen, Emily Clark (ALTAR MGMT), Elisa Vazzana and Wells Williams (ALTAR MGMT). Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

What did you book during that time that you’re proud of?

I booked Sam Hunt at Tortuga on a tiny stage. I remember the buyer saying, “You’re asking for too much for where this is today.” We were arguing over $2,500 or something at the time. I said, “Dude, I’m telling you… It’s going to be huge.” We get to the show and there were 15,000 people in front of this matchbox-size stage. That was the first time that I thought, “Oh, shit. I’m right about some of this stuff.” That was a really fun moment.

Tell me about your time as an Agent at CAA.

I became an Agent relatively quickly compared to the time that it usually took at the company. I got promoted right after I came back from maternity leave. I had my daughter, came back and went full speed ahead, but at that point, I was a single mom as well as a new agent. I really enjoyed my time there. I learned a lot.

How did you get to UTA?

Scott Clayton and Brandi Brammer went to join UTA. Brandi is my daughter’s godmother and one of my mentors. At the same time, we had just been through the pandemic and I didn’t know if I was burned out on being an agent, but I thought the only way I could find out is to go and do it somewhere else. I had friends and former colleagues at UTA, and there were people there that I think are just great humans. I met with Jeffrey Hasson and I talked to Brandi about coming over to UTA , and it was just the right move for me.

Elisa Vazzana & daughter Tatum Vazzana. Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

It was perfect timing. I had Megan Moroney in my back pocket, and I was working on a couple of other clients, but I decided to just bet on myself. I took Megan and walked into a place that felt familiar, new, comfortable and very team-oriented. I think when you bet on yourself, you get big rewards.

You and Megan have had quite a ride. How did you find her?

A lot of my friends in the early days were publishers and writers, so [her manager] Juli Griffith is a 20-year friend of mine. She and I have very similar tastes when it comes to artists, especially females.

Juli called me one day and said, “I’ve got an artist for you.” I said, “What’s her name? What’s her Instagram?” She goes, “I’m not telling you. Just listen to this song.” She sent me “Wonder” and “Hair Salon.” It stopped me in my tracks. I was leaving the gym and Juli said, “Can you meet us at Del Frisco’s right now?”

Megan had a few songs, but still had one foot in the influencer world while trying to break into music. I said, “I can advise you all day long, but if you don’t have anything for people to go listen to, it won’t do you any good if I put people in front of you.” She took that to heart, and Juli started getting her in the right rooms and creating the right music. She came back to me with the songs and I was like, “I’m in.”

I came over to UTA and found her some opportunities with Chase Matthew. Then we put her on Jamey Johnson, which was an incredible look for her from a credibility standpoint. Then it was really just hustling.

Megan Moroney & Elisa Vazzana. Photo: Courtesy of Vazzana

You guys sold out her first headlining tour in minutes. Now Megan is opening for Kenny Chesney. What are you currently focused on?

She is absolutely crushing stadiums, including her Nissan performance during CMA Fest this year. It was one of the best performances I’ve seen from her. Before the show, I said to Scott Clayton, “If she didn’t have the Kenny stadium experience, this might be terrifying for her because it’s the first time she’s played to a crowd this big.” She got off the stage and and was like, “If I didn’t have Kenny, I would be terrified.” [Laughs] She’s been a student of his show every night.

I’m so focused on building her as a global artist. She’s doing 5,000-capacity rooms that are sold-out around the Kenny dates, and is about to go on her second run in the United Kingdom. We’re then expanding into mainland Europe and Australia. I think there’s a big market for her in Asia. She just has such a mass appeal. It’s really endless for her, because we know what she’s capable of creatively.

What else do you do at UTA?

I’m Head of the Fair & Festival department. I was initially hired to start it, as it wasn’t a formal department yet. My old assistant at CAA ended up coming over and now works with me in this department as a coordinator. I love being able to build from a clean slate.

In addition to Megan, I work with some young acts like Logan Crosby, George Pippen and Ian Harrison, all of whom I’m very excited about. I’m not a collector of artists—I don’t have a large roster by design. One of the things Stan told me that always stuck with me was, “Don’t sign anything that you wouldn’t quit your job tomorrow to manage for free.” That’s how much you have to love it.

Do you have other mentors?

Brandi and Stan are two that I’ve gone to a lot. I love Scott Clayton. He’s such a great sounding board for me as a human, a parent and an agent. I also learn a lot from my daughter, who is 10. I believe there are so many things that being a parent teaches you, and I don’t necessarily think that mentors have to be older than you.

What is the best piece of advice you’ve ever gotten?

Don’t take a “no” from someone who can’t give you a “yes.”

How have you balanced being a mom and a businesswoman?

I don’t know. [Laughs] You just do it. I’m stubborn enough to think I can do anything. When that is channeled in a positive direction, it’s awesome. All you have to do is tell me I can’t do something and I will prove to you that I can.

My Music Row Story: Romeo Entertainment Group’s R.J. Romeo

R.J. Romeo. Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Entertainment industry veteran, attorney and entrepreneur R.J. Romeo has spent over 25 years in the music and live events industries. He began his journey as a lighting/roofing technician, which allowed him to develop a foundational understanding of concert production. Graduating law school and leading the entertainment law division at a premiere Omaha firm provided R.J. with a unique skillset that prepared him for his current role as President & CEO of Romeo Entertainment Group (REG).

R.J. secures talent for, consults and services a variety of major events, including Ashley For The Arts, Boots In The Park, Cheyenne Frontier Days, Coastal Country Jam, Country Jam USA, Fremont Street Experience, Greeley Independence Stampede, Mississippi Valley Fair, Pendleton Whisky Music Festival and more. He also oversees the operations of BERO Entertainment Group, Grayscale Event Marketing and Colossal Events Group in addition to REG’s Operations & Logistics, Marketing and Brand Partnerships divisions, respectively. As President & CEO, R.J. guides the strategic vision, planning and operations for the company. He also continues to provide REG’s clients with support in talent buying, consulting, event problem solving, artist contract and rider negotiations, production issues, security planning, venue layout, emergency management planning and dispute resolution matters.

R.J. is also Co-Owner of Rome Phrey Publishing, a boutique publishing company that helps guide the songwriting career of Elvie Shane. R.J. was named the International Entertainment Buyers Association (IEBA)’s 2014 Fair Buyer of the Year, and received both the ACM Don Romeo Talent Buyer of the Year and IEBA Fair Buyer of the Year award in 2018.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I was born in Omaha, Nebraska, which is where the company was founded in 1954 by my grandfather Don Romeo. I grew up in Missouri Valley, Iowa. When my father, Bob Romeo, was growing the business, he liked to farm in his spare time, so we actually had a working farm out in Iowa. That’s where I learned what hard work was. In high school, I moved back to Omaha and then went to Creighton Prep for high school, Creighton University for undergrad and then Creighton Law School.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

You come from a long line of music business executives, with your grandfather and father passing the torch to you. What was it like to grow up with them in the business?

I had multiple people in this business around me. My grandfather ran the business up until he retired in ’89 and then my father started running it. I got bit by the bug early on and fell in love with the music business. I knew in some way, shape or form that I was going to be doing something in the business.

How did you get started yourself?

I got the opportunity to work for a production company during my sophomore year of high school. For three summers, I went out on the road and I worked harder than I had ever worked in any job. I was setting up roofs, doing lighting and learning production from the ground up. It was very difficult work, but it gave me a framework and a base of knowledge that I still use to this day.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

In undergrad, I went to work for our company, but it was called TBA Entertainment at the time because there was a short stint where we were owned by them. I became a junior agent and the Rock Music Consultant. My dad, my aunt Fran Romeo, Gil Cunningham and several other people in the Omaha office all had deep country connections, but not deep rock connections. Because I was listening to bands like Evanescence, Nickelback and Three Doors Down, we as fair/festival buyers were able to get in on the ground floor with a lot of those artists. We had dates on Nickelback’s “Silver Side Up Tour.” We were the only fair/festival producers to get dates on Evanescence’s first tour, and we also worked with Three Doors Down when “Kryptonite” came out.

Then you went to law school.

When I was working at TBA, I saw some lawsuits that we weren’t directly involved in, but they came across my desk. As I was reading the contracts, I thought, “I don’t know what a lot of this means. And if I don’t know, I’m going to be beholden to somebody else to tell me about these things for the rest of my life. Let’s see if I can go get the knowledge.” Having that knowledge combined with the production skills I had acquired through college, I developed a very unique perspective.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

My first year of law school, I went out to California during the summer and clerked at William Morris in their Business Affairs division, which allowed me to see what we do from a different perspective. Then I ended up getting the opportunity to run entertainment law practice while doing real estate litigation in Omaha.

In 2008, I left the law firm I was with and came back to REG as In-House Counsel and Talent Buyer. We had an animal rights group interfere with one of our contracts at Cheyenne Frontier Days, and we ended up having to sue the animal rights group for tortious interference. I knew it was going to cost the family company a fortune, so I decided to come back and quarterback the lawsuit. We got the lawsuit resolved, and I just picked up where I had left off. My dad had left to become the Executive Director of the Academy of Country Music in 2003, so my aunt Fran was REG’s President then.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

What brought you to Nashville?

If you practice law for five or six years in certain jurisdictions, you can waive into another jurisdiction. Once I could waive into Tennessee, I did and moved here in 2012.

When we first landed in Nashville, we didn’t have an official office. Our main office was still in Omaha, so we worked out of our homes. We opened our first official Nashville office in 2016. I then became President of the company in 2019 and my sister, Michelle Romeo, became Vice President.

Then COVID happened. How did that affect your new role?

I had all these big plans. [Laughs] We were starting to ramp up and then the bottom dropped out. Even though it was like Groundhog Day with all the canceling and rebooking shows, we were able to manage over 100 clients between the skeleton crew that we were able to keep during COVID. We got through it mainly due to our clients’ loyalty and the support they gave us.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

In June 2021, we had one of the first big shows with our client Activated Events’ Boots In The Park festival in Norco, California. It was the first outdoor festival in California that month. That event went gangbusters. Chris Young was the headliner for 15,000 people. It was a great moment, and it signaled that the industry was back in a big way. Once I saw that, it felt like we were going to be all right. We survived it, and it was time to get back on track with the plans I had for growing and expanding the company.

Tell me about those plans.

Strategically, we’ve gone into other areas that can add value for our clients. We have about 170 events that we work with right now, with most of them being multi-day events. Some of the big ones are the State Fair of Texas and the San Diego County Fair as well as a lot of festivals. We started working with Activated Events in 2017 on a single one-day event and this year, we did 14 festivals with them. Another one, Social House Entertainment, will do 12 or 13 this year. That’s been a huge growth driver.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

Each client has a different level of need. We pride ourselves on trying to point out [everything that clients need to know] and guide them through the entire process. A lot of talent buyers just book the talent, maybe correct the contract and and say “Good luck!” We book the talent, negotiate the deals, help with the marketing, participate in helping with the production advance and oversee the onsite execution of the show.

We bought a digital marketing company, Grayscale Marketing, because every single one of our clients could benefit from digital marketing. Having that expertise in-house allows me to be able to control the quality and provide value and savings to the client. We also have a joint venture deal with Beckon Entertainment for production logistics, and we’ve created a brand partnership division called Colossal Events Group. Anything we can do to add value for our clients and keep that money in our ecosystem, that’s the plan.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

That’s very impressive. REG is celebrating 70 years in business this year, with its entire history being family-operated. How have you guys been able to do that?

Working with family is the most rewarding and most difficult thing. So many good things come from having a family mindset. I think that’s why we’ve got great retention with our employees because we do things way different than a lot of our competitors.

But in order to scale, you’ve got to have policies and procedures, so you have to find that balance. How do you maintain that family culture but grow? I have found that the answer is to really know what your culture is and hire with culture at the forefront. Our main values are Growth, Resilience, Initiative and Tenacity (GRIT). We also value teamwork because we’re all in it together. That’s a motto you’ll hear from our team repeatedly.

My grandfather had a saying that’s on the wall in our conference room—”You’re only as good as your last show.” To me what that says is we don’t phone it in. We don’t take any slots for granted. We take our jobs representing our clients and being their partner very seriously.

Photo: Courtesy of Romeo Entertainment Group

What’s your favorite part of your job?

I have fun curating creative and unique lineups. Before country was cool [in pop culture], I was working to try to put pop and rock acts with country because my philosophy was the Spotify generation was listening to all types of genres. Why wouldn’t people want to consume the live experience the same way? The industry wasn’t really buying into that at the time, but I managed to put Blake Shelton and Pitbull together on a show in Pendleton, Oregon. It was the first time those guys had ever played together and we sold 19,000 tickets. The following year, we ended up doing Eric Church and Macklemore. That was fun. Now it seems like everyone’s doing that.

Who have been some of your mentors?

My legal mentor was a guy named Jerry Slutzky, who still practices back in Omaha. My production mentor when was a guy named Mark Huber. He owns a company called Theatrical Media Services and we still work with them to this day. In the talent buying space, I had two. My best friend at the company when I was coming up was our VP at the time, a guy named Steve “Bogey” Bogdanovich. Bogey taught me how to service dates and how to be a great service rep. My father is the one that I probably listened to the most and taught me how to deal with agents.

What advice would you give professionals who look up to you?

Given any opportunity, take advantage to the fullest. Ask questions. Ask how you can add value. Try to maximize the opportunities that you get. Another piece of advice is to fail forward. We’re all going to fail, but that’s how we learn and grow. As long as you adopt lessons from those hard failures, you’re only going to get better and improve.

My Music Row Story: Curb Records’ Mike Curb

Mike Curb. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Mike Curb is the Chairman & Owner of Curb Records and Curb | Word Entertainment as well as the former Acting Governor and Lieutenant Governor of California, a Grammy Award-winning record producer, a Billboard Record Producer of the Year and a BMI multi-award-winning songwriter.

The industry veteran continues to preside over Curb Records, the independent record company he founded 60 years ago, which has been influential in the careers of Tim McGraw, Hank Williams, Jr., Rodney Atkins, Lee Brice, LeAnn Rimes, The Judds, Dylan Scott, Sawyer Brown, For King & Country, Wyn Starks, Wynonna Judd, Lyle Lovett, Big Daddy Weave, Natalie Grant, Jo Dee Messina, Hannah Ellis, Mo Pitney, Hal Ketchum and Desert Rose Band, among others. The company has achieved 435 No. 1 hits, garnered over 1,500 top 10 records and charted over 4,500 total records.

In addition to its rich musical legacy, philanthropy remains a longstanding value of Curb and the company. Over the years, Curb Records and the Mike Curb Foundation have provided grants and gifts totaling more than $200 million in support of education, historic preservation and homelessness.

Programs at more than a dozen colleges nationwide are funded through the generosity of Curb, shaping the next generation of musicians, songwriters, producers and music business leaders with renowned programs at Nashville’s own Belmont University and Vanderbilt University.

MusicRow: I know you started Curb Records in Los Angeles. Is that where you grew up?

Yes. We lived in the Compton and Watts area, and I went all the way through public school in California.

Richard Nixon, Sammy Davis Jr. and the Mike Curb Congregation. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

What were your interests as a kid?

Music and motorsports.

Did you always know you wanted to work in music?

I just knew I loved music. I learned to play guitar, piano and a little bit of violin. I was never great at that, but I was fairly good and always loved music. I loved to buy the little 45 RPM records—I think I have nearly every single one that ever hit the charts in my collection. I was interested in songwriting and producing.

Tell me about those early years of learning to write and produce.

I went to California State University, Northridge, which is a public university in San Bernardino Valley where I grew up. One of the Deans allowed me to use the music room where I wrote a song called “You Meet The Nicest People On A Honda.” That later became the theme for Honda.

Richard Petty & Mike Curb. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

I also wrote a song called “Hot Wheels,” which became the theme for Hot Wheels, and I wrote the theme for Chevrolet, “On The Move With Chevrolet.” Then I started composing music for movies.

Wow! That success is what helped you start Curb Records, correct?

Yes, I started the label during my first year at Cal State. The songs for Honda, Hot Wheels and Chevrolet went on to become successful. Then I had enough money to bring in other writers. The first 10 years of my company, we did the music for 50 to 60 movies. As time went on, we got to score better and better movies. That’s how we started.

You built that into a bona fide record label that had hits with pop, rock, country and Christian artists in the ’60s and ’70s. It sounds like you were multi-genre before it was cool?

I’m a fan of music in general. When you look at ’70s rock, there’s a lot in common with the country music of the ’90s and even the country music of today. In California, we really didn’t have the delineation between pop, country and R&B.

Ronald Reagan & Mike Curb. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

After many years of success, you ended up having a career in politics. How did that happen?

I had been in business a number of years and was still young, so I was attending an event for Junior Achievement, a group that gives underprivileged students an opportunity to learn about business, at an early age. I was there talking a little bit about how I started my company.

Ronald Reagan, who was just finishing his term as Governor, was the next speaker, so he heard me speak. They had a lunch afterwards, and I was sitting across from him at a table of probably eight to 10 people. He mentioned that he was planning on running for President and asked me if I wanted to be involved in any way. I told him I hadn’t even made up my mind if I was a Republican or a Democrat. [Laughs]

We had a lot in common. He was an actor, and involved in the entertainment industry, so he cared about film music and knew what I had done with film music. We had a great talk and he asked me to get involved with his campaign out in California. I ended up becoming the Co-Chairman for [the campaign in the state of] California in the mid-70s, and then later, he asked me to be the National Co-Chairman of his campaign for President in 1980. Along the way, I put Chairpersons in all 58 of our great counties in California.

Mike Curb & Hank Williams Jr. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

Then you became Lieutenant Governor of California.

A lot of people approached me about running for Lieutenant Governor. In California, the Lieutenant Governor acts as Governor when the acting Governor is out of state. California’s then-Governor Jerry Brown, who took over after Reagan, was also running for President, so he was traveling a lot. I served 240 official days as Governor—and almost a year when you count weekends. [Laughs] I’m glad I did it, but I sure was anxious to get back in the music business.

After serving as Lieutenant Governor, Reagan asked me to come to Washington for a while and I served as Chairman of the RNFC and the Presidential Trust. He appointed me to the Trade Commissions Committee, and I was his appointee to the USO Board. There I had the opportunity to work on a lot of the immigration issues. I was part of the committee that worked with him on the Simpson-Mazzoli Act, which is probably the last bill we ever had that created a pathway for citizenship.

How did you change lanes back into music after that?

First of all, I had a very outstanding label President at the time, Dick Whitehouse. He kept the company going while I was in government.

After I came back from Washington, I jumped back into the record business. We were still in California, but we focused quite a bit on Nashville artists. We signed The Judds, Sawyer Brown, Hank Williams Jr., Wynonna Judd, Bellamy Brothers, Desert Rose Band and Lyle Lovett. We focused on that in the ’80s. We would do co-ventures with Nashville-based companies, because we didn’t have the infrastructure [to promote country records in-house].

LeAnn Rimes, Mike Curb and team members. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

In late ’89, Joe Smith had just become President of Capitol. He had been President of Warner back in the ’70s, and we had had a very successful relationship. We had a Curb/Warner co-venture and had hits like “You Light Up My Life” by Debby Boone, “December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night)” by The Four Seasons, “Let Your Love Flow” by the Bellamy Brothers, “Da Doo Ron Ron” by Shaun Cassidy and “Kiss You All Over” with Exile.

When Joe moved to Capitol in the late ’80s, he asked us to get out of our joint venture and bring everything to Capitol. In exchange for that, he gave us access to the deep catalog of Capitol. I loved the history of Capitol, so they made an agreement with me that I would bring my artists there and that would allow me to put together packages on the Curb label. They got their licensing and distribution fee, and we put out over a hundred albums of material from classic artists by really focusing on the deep catalog. The whole relationship was successful.

Our company signed new artists like Hal Ketchum, who had a big hit with “Small Town Saturday Night.” Sawyer Brown came back to the Curb label and had “Some Girls Do.” Wynonna Judd had her five-million-selling album, and then of course we signed Tim McGraw, Jo Dee Messina and LeAnn Rimes. We were doing so well that we decided to move to Nashville in 1992.

Tim McGraw & Mike Curb. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

What was Nashville like when you got here?

I came to Nashville many times before we moved. I loved to just walk around, and would walk by all the studios—RCA Studio A, RCA Studio B, the Quonset Hut and Columbia Studio A. I dreamed about getting into those studios.

When we got here, Nashville was starting to grow, but everything was much calmer. During the 32 years we’ve been here, Nashville has exploded into the most exciting city in the world. We’ve bought 12 properties on Music Row and restored them. We bought RCA Studio B and entered into an agreement with the Country Music Hall of Fame. Last year, they brought 100,000 people on those buses [to tour it]. They’ve done a fabulous job.

We’re continuing to work to [preserve and] build out Music Row. We’ve got the Glen Campbell memorabilia at the Musicians Hall of Fame, and the Johnny Cash memorabilia that we purchased when his museum closed. In Memphis, we bought Elvis Presley‘s first home and we’ve developed that as a laboratory for our Mike Curb Institute for Music at Rhodes College. We’re working on building out Beale Street with the Memphis Rock ‘n’ Soul Museum and the Memphis Music Hall of Fame. We’re doing all kinds of positive things every day. The days sometimes are not long enough for us to get everything done. [Laughs]

Mike Curb & Lee Brice. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

Speaking of expanding, let’s talk about the Mike Curb College at Belmont, which has grown exponentially. How did that start?

Donna Hilley was a very good friend of mine. She was running Sony/ATV and introduced me to Bill Troutt, who was the President of Belmont. They already had a music school there, but Bill had a vision for what the music business college could be in Nashville. Bob Mulloy and Cecil Scaife had already started a music business program back in the ’70s, but it was very small. Bill just had a tremendous vision for it, so we started working on the program in the mid-90s. 10 years later, it became the Mike Curb College of Entertainment & Music Business when Bob Fisher took over. We acquired Ocean Way Studio for the college a few years later, and then we started adding programs and developing spaces.

It’s clear that giving back is essential to you. Including what you’ve done for Belmont, the Mike Curb Foundation has given over $200 million in grants and gifts to various causes. Why is it such a focus for you?

I was very inspired. My grandmother was Hispanic, and was born right on the border of Mexico and Texas. She lost her three sisters and her father during the Spanish Flu pandemic. After suffering through that, she somehow, with no money, was able to put herself through college. She married a soldier and he ran a YMCA. She became a translator and spent her life in her church helping people who were oppressed and struggling. Her name was Eloisa Salazar. She inspired me to want to give back.

Mike Curb and Dr. Paul Kwami with their Grammy. Photo: Courtesy of Curb Records

I’m standing on the shoulders of great people who were in public service, but they never received any financial rewards for their work. So when my company started generating profits, we decided to put half of it into our foundation each year to benefit various charities.

The most exciting thing that we’ve been really focused on for the last decade has been homelessness. We made an agreement with Glenn Cranfield and the Nashville Rescue Mission, and we bought 20,000 meals to feed the homeless during the pandemic. We also started building relationships with Room In the Inn, Matthew 25, the Safe Haven Family Shelter and Second Harvest Food Bank, but we got very close to the Rescue Mission downtown and their goal of building the Women’s Mission. My wife and I became the Co-Chairs of the program to build the Women’s Mission downtown that just opened. The entrance area is named after my grandmother. We also have the refugee center here in Nashville, which is also named after my grandmother.

That is amazing. When you look back on everything that you’ve created, what are you most proud of?

I have to say the work of our foundation. That is something that I’m extremely proud of because we’re helping the homeless, and we’re also helping students through our college. We’ve been able to do positive things for the community with the restoration of Music Row and Beale Street in Memphis. I’m also very proud of Curb Records, our artists and our catalog.

What are your hopes for the next 60 years of Curb Records?

I hope it’s still around. [Laughs] We haven’t sold our company, and we haven’t entered into any distribution arrangements that would lock us into something we wouldn’t want. Basically, we are extremely independent. We’ve set our company up in a trust to go on forever, and we have great future trustees who will continue it after my wife and I are gone. Please write nice things on our 120th anniversary!

My Music Row Story: Triple Tigers Records’ Annie Ortmeier

Annie Ortmeier

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Annie Ortmeier is a digital-focused music executive who has pioneered every role she has held in the industry. As the newly-appointed Co-President of Triple Tigers Records, she has built new departments and teams from the ground up that meet the ever-changing needs of the music industry across sales, digital marketing, ecommerce and streaming.

She began her career as an intern with CMT and its digital branch, CMT.com, which led to a full-time job managing the online retail brands of CMT, VH1, Comedy Central and LOGO. After that, Ortmeier transitioned to an agency owned by Ticketmaster where she managed online stores for a diverse roster of artists.

She then created her own business, Yowza Ecommerce Solutions. Her company linked up with global superstars like Taylor Swift, which brought Ortmeier the opportunity to join Big Machine Records as their Director of Interactive Marketing in 2011.

From there, Ortmeier joined UMG Nashville in a new role of Director of Digital Marketing where she managed digital platform relationships. At UMG, she evolved alongside the rapidly changing consumer landscape, becoming Sr. Director of Streaming & Digital Marketing, VP and then Sr. VP of Streaming & Digital Marketing. Ortmeier was able to orchestrate and execute revolutionary marketing campaigns for country megastars such as Luke Bryan, Sam Hunt, Chris Stapleton, Lady A, Keith Urban and many more.

Now, as Co-President of Triple Tigers Records, she is helping to build a home for artists that challenges them to grow with a laser-focused hand to guide their releases. Advocating for talent with a limited roster coupled with global infrastructure support, Triple Tigers Records has cultivated an environment of supportive artistic creativity and vision.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in a super small town in Nebraska called Arlington. Population: 1,100 people. We had no stoplights—only stop signs. Kindergarten through 12th grade went to one school building. We were surrounded by dairy farms.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

What were your interests growing up?

Music and sports.

I have three older brothers and a younger sister. When you have older siblings, they choose the music, so I was listening to heavy metal and hair bands. I remember riding to school listening to Mötley Crüe, Guns N’ Roses, Bon Jovi and Pantera, among other rock bands.

When I was 10 or 11, I was over at a friend’s house and they were playing Garth Brooks’ No Fences album. I remember listening to the lyrics and thinking, “This makes a lot more sense. This is how we live.” I dove head first into country music after that. I started buying cassettes and CDs and pouring over the lyrics. It was the height of ’90s country.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

Did you know then you wanted to work in country music?

I didn’t know there was such a thing as working in music other than to be a singer. I remember reading through the liner notes for Patty Loveless’ album When Fallen Angels Fly, and the final track on that album is a song called “Over My Shoulder.” It was way too mature for me—I didn’t really understand what it was about—but I was so enthralled with the song and the storytelling of it. I remember having this realization that underneath the song title were two people’s names, and that meant they wrote it. That opened the door to me asking what else you could do in music and knowing Nashville was the hub of it.

Music became an even more important factor in my life just as I was about to enter high school. My oldest brother was diagnosed with a very rare brain tumor that was cancerous. He was my hero, I didn’t think anything could ever happen to him, but here was this disease that brought him and our family to its knees. It was super aggressive and most of the doctors did not have much experience with it, so all in all from diagnosis to his passing was 10 months. He was only 24 years old. Through that entire painful period, I processed everything with music. I truly witnessed miracles and had so many moving experiences through that tragic time. It completely altered my outlook on life to embrace the moment and take the chance because tomorrow is not promised to anyone.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

After high school, I went to a small liberal arts college in Lincoln, Nebraska called Nebraska Wesleyan University and majored in public relations with a minor in Spanish. I studied abroad in Spain when I was a junior. Because I have a large family and was always playing sports, that was the first time I had spent that much time alone, which gave me a lot of time to think. I had one year left of college and was thinking about what I wanted to do next. This music thing had been in me and on my mind for so long so I decided I had to get to Nashville.

How did you get yourself here?

I knew I needed “music experience” so I started out by interning at the local Lincoln, Nebraska radio station. We would set up remotes whenever they did them around town, which usually ended up being at Hooters down the street. [Laughs]

The last semester of my senior year, I was in our career center trying to figure out if there was another internship I had overlooked that had to do with music. I was looking through this giant binder and saw a printout of an internship opportunity at CMT.

I went above and beyond to apply for this internship to try to stand out in the crowd of people I thought would have more music experience than I did. I put together a binder that included a cover letter, my resume and a bunch of writing samples from our college newspaper. I even made my own letterhead for it.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

While I waited to hear back, I graduated from college and worked as a beer cart girl on a golf course, waited tables and had a fun summer. That fall, Donna Priesmeyer called me and said, “Hey, I am from CMT. We got your application and would like to offer you the internship in our new CMT.com department.” I moved here in January of 2005 and showed up to the internship on Jan. 10. The CMT.com department had nine members at the time. Everyone was over the age of 30 and I was only 22.

What was that like?

It was so much fun but taxing. The internship was unpaid—as were all internships then—so I would work there as many hours as I could and worked two other paid jobs. I worked at Starbucks in the morning from 5:30 a.m. until 11:00 a.m., then I’d go to my internship from 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and then I’d go wait tables from 6:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. That was my schedule at least three days a week—and then I’d often pick up shifts on the weekends. It all paid off though, because then at the end of that internship period, they offered me a full-time job at CMT.com. I started that job on May 5, 2005.

Tell me about that.

I was the Coordinator of E-Commerce for CMT.com. My boss—and most of my department—ran out of New York across MTV and Viacom Properties, so I was the satellite person in Nashville for a while. I also worked on CMT.com’s online stores, creating proprietary merchandise.

They had this franchise show that was called Trick My Truck. We were making Trick My Truck merchandise and selling out of it faster than we could make it, which taught me a lot about merchandising and e-commerce. We were doing that with some of the other CMT franchises and it was working so well that they opened it up to other parts of the Viacom business, so I took on VH1 and the VH1 Classic channel. They brought me on to help launch the Comedy Central online store, which was super cool as well. I spent three years in that role, and by the time I left, we had hired the next six interns after me and became a department of 30. Something fun I got to do was be a Production Assistant on the first-ever online show that happened in Nashville called Studio 330 Sessions. We featured Little Big Town, Jason Aldean, Luke Bryan, Eric Church, Old Crow Medicine Show and more at the very early stages of their careers.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

It was such an interesting time to be there when so much growth was happening in the online digital space. That experience was awesome. It’s still one of the most fun places I’ve ever worked.

What was next?

There were rumors of a shakeup in leadership, so I preemptively started looking for another job. Someone that had left CMT went over to another company called Echo and I followed them there. It was a startup company that was one of the first shops in Nashville that brought everything digital under one hood. They were creating artists’ websites and online stores, and turning fan clubs into online communities. When it was purchased by Ticketmaster, I became the Manager of Merchandise & E-Commerce.

Ticketmaster was interested in purchasing Echo because they saw the potential to build all of these other product offerings onto a ticket purchase. We were directly integrated for doing some of the first-ever ticket and music bundles that happened in 2009. I was working on the e-commerce side of it and helping come up with product lines, creative ideas for new merchandise and then packaging it with music, whether it be a download or a physical piece. That only lasted one year before there was a shakeup again.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

What happened?

Echo’s management called us together and told us we were being laid off. As they started downsizing, they actually offered me a job in Los Angeles. I wasn’t very confident that the job in L.A. would last much longer, so I asked if they would pay to move me back to Nashville if I got laid off within the first year. They agreed and I moved in August of 2009.

I ended up loving living in L.A. I met really great people and made friends out there that I’m still friends with to this day, but the job was awful. I was laid off again nine months later. After that ended, I was pretty much done with corporate America, so I started my own business as an e-commerce consultant.

What was that like?

Someone said to me early on, “If you always work where the money is made, you’ll always have a job.” That stuck with me. I knew if I was able to show that I can bring in money various ways, it would be difficult to get rid of me. So when I started my own business, I really set out to teach people how to create a business strictly online.

One of my first clients was Jewel, who was and is managed by Virginia Davis [Bunetta]. We had been working with her in the Ticketmaster system, and when Echo went away, they sort of pushed her off the platform. She was getting ready to launch a tour and had VIP packages that she was selling through her website. Virginia called me and asked for help figuring that out on their own, so I helped her manage her online store and got those packages up for sale.

Soon after, Virginia connected me to Big Machine who was working with a new web developer/store company managed by Jeff Yapp. He was the head of my division when I was at CMT, so I called him and we set up a meeting at his office in Santa Monica. Then I started contracting with him and helping them with Jewel.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

The next thing that they wanted us to work on was Taylor Swift‘s Speak Now album. I was specifically focused on her online retail. She had a rhinestone encrusted guitar and I remember asking her team, “Why don’t you put one for sale on your website?” They weren’t sure it would sell, but I said, “Throw it up there for $10,000 and see what happens.” It sold immediately. It was fun to see her online business grow and touch it a little bit.

How did you get back to Nashville?

I moved back in 2010—which Ticketmaster paid for. [Laughs] I continued to run my own business here for a little bit. I was making it work, but the grind of running your own business and constantly looking for new business takes its toll on you. I’m glad I went through it at that point in my career because it taught me some very valuable lessons.

A friend of mine who was at Big Machine at the time, Ashley Heron, told me, “I think we need what you do on the e-commerce side at Big Machine.” The company hired me as Director of Interactive. It was digital needs for the roster, which was everything from websites to online stores, advertising, socials and more. I started with them in 2011.

What was next?

I started having a conversation with Dawn Gates at UMG about a potential new job. They weren’t exactly sure what the role would be, but they wanted to focus on building relationships in the digital world. I started with them on May 6, 2013.

There, my focus was on building partnerships in the digital world—primarily partnerships that were revenue-generating. It started with partners like Vevo, Touch Tunes and other digital accounts that had revenue tied to them. Spotify started to have a much more significant role in the industry, so I took that on, which opened up this avenue of specifically focusing on streaming.

In my time at UMG, I had four different job titles. By the time I left, I was Sr. VP of Streaming Marketing. I went from being a part of the digital team to breaking out and being a team of one and then, by the time I left, we were our own department of six people. When I started overseeing the Spotify relationship in 2013, streaming was 10 to 15 percent of the business—when I left 10 years later, it was 85 percent of the business.

Photo: Courtesy of Ortmeier

That has been a theme in my career: trying something new, building it to a point where it becomes important and then moving on to tackle the next challenge.

Late last year, you joined Triple Tigers as Co-President. Tell me about that.

George Couri called to offer me this opportunity and I couldn’t believe it. It felt like the perfect fit. It’s really amazing to see what Triple Tigers has accomplished so far since starting from scratch, and I had my eye on them as a label since their inception. They were primarily built as a radio promotion staff, and they’ve been really successful in that realm—11 No. 1 records out of 16 shipped anyone? The streaming, revenue success and other things that have followed have been a benefit of all of the success at radio, but I think there’s still some work to be done with both Scotty [McCreery] and Russell [Dickerson] and establishing them as a brand.

I’ve been at Triple Tigers for eight months now. We’ve kept our intentionally small roster of three artists, but we’re looking at expanding that—and hopefully growing the team as well. It’s really exciting. For me, I’m excited to be working with Scotty, Russell and Jordan Fletcher on their goals and where they want to take their careers from here. I’m super excited by the staff at Triple Tigers as well. They are absolutely amazing and so passionate. They work so hard.

Who have been some of your mentors?

Dawn Gates at UMG was really integral in teaching me about the label system. Cindy Mabe was and is still a mentor for me. She has always been a champion of mine. Leaving her and my team at UMG was the hardest thing, but she was really great about it. I’ve known Cameo Carlson for 12 to 13 years. She was one of the first females in the business to go through the digital landscape from the beginning, so she’s always a great person to go to for advice.

I also feel like there’s this group of us that have come up through the business together and are peers, but we mentor each other in a lot of ways. I’ve got a bunch of women that I stay connected to and talk through things with.

What’s some of the best advice you’ve ever gotten?

I have never been afraid of trying something new. The only constant I’ve ever known is change. You always have to be willing to embrace change and figure it out. That has served me really well as I’ve flowed through the industry. Treat everybody with kindness and be really respectful to everyone, because you never know when your intern is going to be the next person that hires you. I’ve seen it happen. It’s the classic golden rule. That’s one thing that sets Nashville apart.

My Music Row Story: SESAC’s Scott Jungmichel

Scott Jungmichel

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Scott Jungmichel serves as President & COO for SESAC Performing Rights. In this capacity, Jungmichel is charged with overseeing Writer/Publisher Client Services, Licensing, Royalty Administration, Corporate Development, Research & Analysis as well as administrative functions.

A 28-year veteran of SESAC, he previously served as CIO.  In that role, Jungmichel managed technology infrastructure, IT operations as they pertain to internal systems and projects, and deployed new technology to streamline business processes. He also focused on the requirements of internal employees and business units while ensuring ongoing operations and overall security measures. Before acting as CIO, Jungmichel spent over 10 years as the SVP of Royalty Distribution & Research Services, including Content Registration and Optimization, Royalty Administration, A/V Client Services and Research & Analysis.

Jungmichel holds a BBA degree in music business and management with a minor in business administration from Belmont University.  He is also a member of the Leadership Music Class of 2022.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in the Nashville area. We moved from Atlanta when I was really young. The real estate agent took my dad out to Brentwood and said, “You want to be here.” So that’s where I grew up.

Pictured (L-R): Malcolm Hawker, John Josephson and Scott Jungmichel. Photo: Courtesy of Jungmichel

What were you into as a kid?

A mix of music and sports. Basketball was my main sport, and I played baseball.

On the music front, I was into a little bit of everything. I wouldn’t say I had a musical family—my family didn’t play instruments—but there was always music around. My parents would play Elvis, Willie Nelson, Charlie Rich and even big band music. I was listening to the Grease soundtrack and Kiss.

I started playing music in fourth grade with the trumpet. That morphed into being in a rock band playing bass guitar in high school. I started really getting into music at that point, but I didn’t realize there was a music business. Once I found out there was a business, I decided to [pursue that] and go to Belmont.

Pictured (L-R): Diana Akin Scarfo, Jack Harlow, Sam Kling and Scott Jungmichel. Photo: Courtesy of Jungmichel

Tell me about your time at Belmont.

It was a lot of fun. I learned a lot. Bob Mulloy was running the program at that time. There were internship opportunities because he was really big on internships. All that stuff was important [in order] to see how the business really functions. I interned at MCA Records for a while. I was primarily in the Marketing department and worked there for a few semesters, which I enjoyed.

What happened after graduation?

I didn’t find a job. [Laughs] My wife was a year behind me, so she was still in school. She went to Belmont too. So I actually went back to Belmont and completed the requirements to get a business management degree. I was also working at a record store. Then I answered an ad and started at SESAC.

What was SESAC like when you joined?

From 1930 until the end of 1992, SESAC was literally a family-owned business. It was started by Paul Heineke. SESAC was sold at the end of 1992, and I started soon thereafter, but it still felt like a family-run business at the time. The transformative stuff hadn’t really started.

Scott and Denise Jungmichel. Photo: Courtesy of Jungmichel

I began in the Licensing department, and was working in the broadcast area focused on television and radio stations. When they sold, you had to contact them and get the transfer of ownership and make sure that they get relicensed essentially, so I did that for about a year. Then a job opened up in the international royalties area, but at that point, it wasn’t really a full-time job at SESAC, so I was filling my time doing other stuff as well.

You really got to experience the growth of SESAC, having been there for so long. How did the company transform in the beginning of your tenure?

The first thing was a technological shift, to create some infrastructure. That was obviously a change. Then there was a bit of a philosophy change on how to run the business and how to take this family-owned company and grow it. Not too long after that, we signed Bob Dylan and Neil Diamond. That was the catalyst for additional growth because those are significant catalogs. From that point on, we had a template to grow the business. We’ve gone through a couple of ownership changes and expanded beyond performing rights with the SESAC Music Group concept. It’s exciting.

As far as being there that long, I didn’t have to move. Everything sort of changed around me—either I was changing what I was doing or there were ownership changes, which always creates some new opportunities and ways to do things differently—so I didn’t have to go anywhere. I had plenty of variety.

Scott Jungmichel and composer Jonathan Wolff. Photo: Courtesy of Jungmichel

You’ve had so many roles at SESAC. How do you explain what you do now as President & COO?

It’s really looking after the three departments that make PROs unique: Licensing, Client Services or Writer/Publisher Relations and Royalty Distribution. Those departments have to work in sync because one can’t exist without the other. If you don’t have writers and publishers, you can’t license anything. You don’t get writers and publishers unless your royalty distributions are efficient, accurate and pay competitively. A normal day for me is a little bit of each of those.

What would you say is your favorite part?

I don’t know if I have a favorite part. I came up doing royalty distribution, so that’s the piece that I’m the most comfortable with. That’s still kind of fun—it’s a little bit of a puzzle.

I’m dating myself, but I started pre-internet. We had radio, local and network television stations and cable. Now we’re dealing with billions of lines of data, and trillions of performances with Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube and all the other stuff. There’s a different kind of intensity to that than there is in the other performance categories, not that the others can’t get intense. [Laughs] Distributions are like a quarterly sprint.

Pictured (L-R): John Josephson, Scott Jungmichel and composer Devin Powers. Photo: Courtesy of Jungmichel

Have you had any mentors along the way?

I’ve been mentored by everybody I’ve interacted with in one way or another, whether it’s all the bosses I’ve had or colleagues. You pick up different pieces of their styles. It’s good to have a toolbox like that, because you have to pull out different things at different times.

What are some of the tools or strengths that you lean on the most in your day to day?

There’s that analytical side of me. I approach things from a very pragmatic, analytical way. I’m also pretty even-keeled—nothing’s going to get me too high and nothing’s going to get me too low.

What advice would you give someone who wants to follow in your footsteps?

Work hard. I know that sounds simple and obvious, [but] find something that you love, get in there and work hard. If you work hard, you’ll get noticed. You’ve also got to have a tinge of luck. There’s a little bit of making your own luck, but things have to happen. You can only control what you can control, and then you just have to be ready when an opportunity comes up.

My Music Row Story: Big Loud’s Candice Watkins

Candice Watkins

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

As SVP, Marketing at Big Loud Records, Candice Watkins brings proven leadership and across-the-board expertise to the independent powerhouse. She was selected as one of Billboard’s Women In Music (2023, 2024), and has been named a Country Power Player for the last three years.

Leading the label’s marketing efforts across its many ventures and partnerships, Watkins executes creative strategy and bold, cross-platform campaigns that make an impact. Recently, she has led the marketing efforts behind chart-topping successes like Morgan Wallen’s back-to-back all-genre No. 1 albums as well as successful recent projects from Hardy, Hailey Whitters, Stephen Wilson Jr., Charles Wesley Godwin and more. Watkins also spurred introductory campaigns for artists such as Jake Worthington, Lauren Watkins, Ashley Cooke and Dylan Gossett, among others, while embarking on major campaign efforts for heavy hitters Lauren Alaina, Ernest, Larry Fleet and more. The Montclair, New Jersey native is a graduate of Northeastern University in Boston and the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

Prior to joining Big Loud, Watkins served as Sr. Director of Marketing & Artist Development at UMG Nashville and preceded with stops at Red Light Management, Mozes Inc., Borman Entertainment and Martingale Entertainment. Outside of her work innovating campaign strategy for Big Loud, Watkins serves on boards for CMA, ACM and Teen Dream Center.

Watkins will be honored as part of the current class of MusicRow’s Rising Women on the Row on March 19. For more details about the class and the event, click here.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in a town called Montclair, New Jersey. I was born in Queens, New York, and then when I was one, my parents moved to a suburb of New Jersey.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

Were you into music growing up?

No, I was a sports person. I was basketball and soccer all the way. If you met me when I was a kid and asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would tell you I wanted to be the first girl in the NBA.

I always liked music, but I passionately fell in love with it when I was in high school. I was obsessed with lyrics. If I loved something, I wanted everyone to know about it.

What were you listening to?

Growing up, it was definitely all pop and hip-hop for me. Then I discovered Alanis Morissette. Her lyrics gave me a deep appreciation for words. I fell in love with my English classes. She opened me up to a whole new world of music.

Where did you go to college?

I started at a school called Northeastern University in Boston, where I was a music industry major. Halfway through, I transferred out to University of Southern California in Los Angeles and graduated from there [with a degree in] business administration and entrepreneurship.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

What made you want to transfer?

In Boston, I was the captain of my rowing team, but I was obsessed with music. I wanted to work in music and thought New York or Los Angeles were my choices. Because I already grew up in the Northeast, I knew what New York was like. Los Angeles was the unknown for me. I thought if I transferred out there, I could experience L.A. under the safety of college.

While I was still in Boston, I interned for Marty Nolan at a management company (Guster, Dispatch, etc) and was introduced to a local band in San Diego that I fell in love with. I thought I could transfer to USC and manage the band, so that’s what I did. It was very much a fun, bootstrap, DIY experience. [We had] shows at bars in San Diego, L.A., Phoenix, San Francisco and Las Vegas, because it was all drivable where you’d get a portion of the door.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

That’s so fun. What happened after graduation?

I played sports all throughout college. I was on the rowing team, and there was one year that I did rowing and basketball. While in L.A. after graduation, I had an injury that flared up and required surgery. The surgery would take me out of commission for three months where I couldn’t walk or work, so I moved back to the northeast to have the surgery with a specialist and recover at my parents’ house. Once I recovered, I started looking for jobs in New York City.

I was up for a dream job at a label in the A&R department. I went in for my second interview and, I’ll never forget, the guy I was interviewing with had to end the meeting because Jermaine Dupri and Janet Jackson were waiting for him in the studio. [Laughs] I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is my dream.”

I became a Christian out in L.A., so my [life had changed]. When I was recovering and interviewing for jobs, Nashville came into my head. It made absolutely no sense because I had never been here. Outside of my mom listening to Patsy Cline and Loretta Lynn when I was growing up, and me knowing crossover artists like Keith Urban, Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Tim McGraw—because of that Nelly song—working in country music wasn’t an obvious notion to me. I tried to ignore it, but it just got so strong that I knew that it would be a mistake if I didn’t come here. Based on that, I packed my car, and with a thousand bucks to my name, I drove down to Nashville. That was in 2006. I didn’t have a place to live or anything.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

Wow! What happened when you got here?

I expected Nashville to be this massive city like L.A. and New York. So when I was driving in, I was looking for this grandiose skyline with massive buildings. I ended up passing Nashville. I pulled off on Old Hickory Boulevard off I-65 and found a Starbucks in Brentwood. I got my laptop out and started looking for a place to live and for jobs.

This guy that I interned with in Boston, who was an artist manager at Red Light, reached out to me and asked how my new job in New York was going. I was like, “I didn’t take it. I’m in Nashville now,” and gave him the whole story.

He said, “Well that’s funny because we’re trying to build a Nashville presence. Coran [Capshaw] just bought his first Nashville office and this is our first week of operation. You should go meet with them.” So I met with Red Light and they didn’t have any jobs available, only internships. I was a 24-year-old graduate with a lot of college debt, so I thought, “I can’t do a free internship. I need a good job with benefits.”

The guy followed up and I told him they only had internships. He said, “Candice, do you really think you came all the way to Nashville to get a regular job with benefits? I suggest you take the internship and get your foot in the door.” So I swallowed my pride and I interned for free at Red Light. I worked at a restaurant and at the Ryman so I could get paid and see shows for free. A couple months into that Red Light internship, I ended up becoming full-time. Rodney Atkins was just blowing up. They just released his album called If You’re Going Through Hell, with five back-to-back No. 1 singles, and I got to work that whole campaign. That’s how Nashville started for me.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

What was next for you?

After Red Light, I ended up leaving and going on the road with bands doing their brand activations and building their mobile databases. I did that on tour for New Kids On The Block with Natasha Bedingfield as direct support and Lady Gaga as the opening act. On the first weekend out on that tour, they fired the tour PA, so I ended up fulfilling the PA role in addition to the brand activation role. I was gone for months. I was also on a Brooks & Dunn tour, which was one of the best experiences I’ve ever had in my career. I watched their set every single night, I’d never miss “Believe” or “Neon Moon,” and if there was any doubt about working in country music for my career, that tour changed me. I was also on the Keith Urban tour and a Christian music tour.

While I was on the road with Keith Urban, Gary Borman came up to me backstage and said he was looking for a day-to-day manager for Keith. It was my dream to be an artist manager, so I met with Gary and Keith a couple times and eventually got the call saying that Keith wanted me. I became Keith Urban’s day-to-day manager for a few years, which was a career defining moment for me.

What happened next?

After a few years with Keith, I left music altogether because the pastor of my church basically asked me to manage him. He was a pastor, an author and a speaker, so I handled a lot of his speaking engagements, and we released a couple books. Then I went back into music. I did day-to-day for Hunter Hayes for a brief period of time before going to UMG and working under Cindy Mabe in the Marketing department.

I did that for a few years and then Seth England reached out to me. I had known him through business and church, and we had always kept in touch. He asked to get together for a catch-up, and during that, he ambushed me about a job. [Laughs] At that point in time, it was a management role. I thought about it and told him no.

At that time, they were still building the label part of Big Loud. As they were growing, they had the A&R and Promotion departments established, and he felt that they really needed to build out the Marketing role/department next, so he met with me again and casted a vision about the label role. I had to really consider it. I wasn’t looking for a transition, I was happy where I was at UMG. I had to really do the due diligence of hearing him out and praying about it. I looked for every reason to say no and I couldn’t find one. I decided to take a leap of faith by accepting the Big Loud job in 2018.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

What is your favorite part about your job now?

At the end of the day, I love music. It sounds basic, but it’s true. I’m in this business to help artists release their music, and bring strategy and execution for them to achieve their vision for it. I love seeing them achieve their “firsts.” Whether it be their first Platinum song or album or their first sold-out headlining show, first No. 1 or television appearance, etc., I never grow tired of that. There’s always a “first,” regardless if you’re a developing artist or an established superstar. It really feeds me because I know what it symbolizes and what it took, and that speaks to the artist and the team. On the team side, I really love supporting the crop of professionals I get to work with and serve.

What is one of your favorite experiences that you’ve had in this industry that you’ll always remember?

There’s so many. This isn’t the flashiest story, but I’m sentimental, so something I’ll always remember is that Shania Twain was my first country concert during college in Boston. I spent all my money to buy really great seats. To go from that experience as a music fan dreaming of working in the business professionally to actually getting to work with her at UMG Nashville was deeply special to me. I keep that ticket stub framed in my office today as a reminder to keep dreaming.

Photo: Courtesy of Watkins

What’s some of the best advice you’ve ever gotten?

If you can’t get what you want right now, put yourself in proximity to it. Also, I really believe in this whole theory that how you get something is how you have to sustain it. Be proud of how you get something.

As one of our Rising Women on the Row honorees, what has your experience been like as a woman in our business?

I know what I bring to the table. I know that it’s valuable. I know what I’m doing. I think everyone’s road is different. Mine has been more of a zigzag, if you will, than a straight line. I’ve always craved that story of being at the same company for 20 years, but that’s just not been my story. There are definitely power dynamics and inequitable systems at play. I have my days of being anguished. I know it’s forced me to forge my own path, have perseverance and to stay focused on my vision, despite what’s happening, to bring positive impact.

What advice would you give women who look up to you?

Never feel entitled to the thing that you want. Work hard for it by being excellent at what you do. Bloom where you’re planted. That’s what led me to opportunities with Keith Urban, UMG Nashville and Big Loud. In addition, there are so many opportunities now in terms of programs. ACM and Black Music Action Coalition (BMAC) have a [mentorship] program and CMA has a Women’s Leadership Academy. There’s so much access now, so many resources—way more than I ever experienced when I was coming up. Take advantage of all of those opportunities and programs.

My Music Row Story: Sony Music Nashville’s Taylor Lindsey

Taylor Lindsey

The “My Music Row Story” weekly column features notable members of the Nashville music industry selected by the MusicRow editorial team. These individuals serve in key roles that help advance and promote the success of our industry. This column spotlights the invaluable people that keep the wheels rolling and the music playing.

Taylor Lindsey is the SVP, A&R at Sony Music Nashville, where she oversees the label’s dynamic new A&R team as well as signs and develops a diverse roster that includes recorded music icons, breakthrough acts and newcomers.

Prior to taking on her current expanded role, Lindsey was directly involved with the development of artists such as Old Dominion, Luke Combs, Maren Morris, Ryan Hurd and Mitchell Tenpenny, among others. Before joining Sony Music Nashville, she was at BMG where she signed and developed the careers of songwriters and artists as well as pitched the catalogs of 13 chart-topping songwriters, including her award-winning sister, Hillary Lindsey.

A respected industry executive, Lindsey has been included in a number of industry power lists including Billboard’s 40 Under 40 (2018), Billboard’s Women In Music (2018, 2019, 2023), Billboard’s Country Power Players (2022, 2023), Variety’s Hitmakers Impact (2020), Variety’s Young Leaders In Music (2019) and more. She is also a graduate of the Leadership Music Class of 2019. She currently resides in Nashville with her husband, Grammy-nominated songwriter Derrick Southerland, and their daughter, Lyle, and son, Ryder.

Lindsey will be honored as part of the current class of MusicRow’s Rising Women on the Row on March 19. For more details about the class and the event, click here.

MusicRow: Where did you grow up?

I grew up in a small town called Washington, Georgia, which is about 45 minutes east of Athens and 45 minutes west of Augusta.

Photo: Courtesy of Lindsey

What did you like to do as a kid?

Washington is really small town, so there really wasn’t very much to do. I was in the church choir growing up and I cheered. But even though it was small, it was a great upbringing. We didn’t lock our doors at night. We didn’t lock our cars. We walked to the local pharmacy to get snacks after school and just signed a little sheet of paper instead of paying, because it just went on our parents’ credit. I don’t think I learned how to pump gas until I was a freshman in college because all of the gas stations were full service. It was just a really sweet, idealistic way to grow up, and I really appreciate it now that I’m older.

Photo: Courtesy of Lindsey

Were you musical?

I wouldn’t consider myself that musical, but music was always a part of my DNA and my childhood. My parents used to throw dinner parties with all of their friends quite often, and some of my earliest memories are of dancing in the kitchen to Motown with them and their friends as a little girl. I don’t have a ton of core memories where music isn’t a part of them; my dad dashboard drumming to the latest country song while driving me to school in the morning or my mom humming along to a Carly Simon or Bonnie Raitt song, watching my sisters both sing in talent shows (and win most of them)—music was just always a constant in our household.

Where did you go to college?

I went to the University of Georgia. I met my husband [Grammy-nominated songwriter Derrick Southerland] there when we were in school. We were both in the music business program there. It was Bruce Burch who stopped me on campus one day and convinced me to join the program. I needed an elective class and thought it’d be easy to study organic chemistry in the back of the class, but I was wrong.. and I really fell in love with the prospect of working in music then.

Photo: Courtesy of Lindsey

I take it you liked the music business classes.

Yeah, I did. [Laughs] Fun fact—though my dad doesn’t think it’s so fun—I didn’t graduate. I have one three-hour class requirement to actually graduate. Essentially, in my junior year, I really realized this was something that I could do. Because my sister Hillary [Lindsey] was already here, I had already been meeting so many people. So I started pitching her songs first.

One summer [before I moved to Nashville full time] I came here and I had my very first pitch meeting as a song plugger with Renee Bell, who used to be the head of A&R at Sony. I sat on her little white couch and played her some of Hillary’s songs.

What happened when you moved here full-time?

Hillary was independent at the time and she had a little company called Raylene Music. I moved to Nashville and became her full-time everything. I was pitching songs and booking co-writes, but because she didn’t have any kind of a big company behind her, I was also helping negotiate soundtrack fees for songs she had written for movies and all sorts of things. I really cut my teeth by trial and error, just having to figure it out by leaning on her and the people that I met along the way, and Hill and I had so much fun back then doing it together.

After about a year of that, BMG acquired Hillary’s catalog and hired me as a song plugger. When I was at BMG, I had 13 artist-writers, including Hillary.

Photo: Courtesy of Lindsey

Tell me about moving over to Sony Music Nashville.

In 2013, Jim Catino called me and said there was an open A&R job at Sony and someone that he really respected and loved—Jesse Frasurebrought my name up. Jim said that he thought about it and that he didn’t have anybody else in mind for the job.

He said, “Think about it. Pray about it. Talk to Derrick about it. If you want it, call me on Monday and you can have it.” The ironic thing is that Derrick had just been offered a publishing deal with Still Working Music, who had a joint venture with BMG, so I was about to have the opportunity to work with him when this opportunity came up.

After a lot of consideration, I took the job. I never thought I would fall in love with A&R or the label system. It was never on my radar or a goal of mine from a career standpoint. But it was a two-year contract and I just thought I could do anything for two years, and if I hated it, I would just tough it out and be a better publisher in the long run. I obviously fell in love with it.

Photo: Courtesy of Lindsey

What are some of the first projects you worked on in A&R at Sony?

I would say the first pillar of establishing myself as an A&R person was signing Maren Morris in 2015. She had already released some songs on Spotify, and she and Janet Weir were creating their own little nucleus of independent artistry, but her partnering with Sony and really being a part of that was pretty incredible.

Were there any learning curves transitioning from being a publisher to a label exec?

The label system is a lot different than the publishing system. What publishing gave me was an understanding of the impact of the creative—and the art—and how you always have to have the creative right; how the music should always come first, but what I had to learn was really the scope and detail of what it takes to market a song or an artist—the promotional aspect of that down to the A&R admin side and the release-planning side. How a million chips have to fall into place to get a song from when I hear it as a work tape to the release and what it takes to make it successful.

What would you say is the most fulfilling part of your job now?

My role has evolved so much over the years, going from a pure A&R person to now, a department head and having an A&R team around me. On the one hand, I’m not in the weeds as much as I used to be on the true creative. I don’t have as many artists that I am properly point on for A&R because my responsibilities are so much wider and dedicated to the label system as a whole, but there is something really special about hearing a demo or a work tape from the publishing community and going, “Man, I’ve got to play that for so and so.” Those creative wins are still really important to me.

On the other side of that coin, it’s fulfilling to sit in a room with this A&R team every day, hear their ideas, see what they’re signing and be a part of that. I help where I can, but I really attribute so much of our recent success as an A&R team and label to them.

Photo: Courtesy of Lindsey

What would your younger self think about you now?

My younger self would be really proud of the fact that I’ve made it this far in my career by being honest, trying to hold integrity and not forgetting that everyone around me is a human just like I am. I try to actually look people in the eye everyday and just be real and thoughtful.

With Derrick being a successful songwriter and also being in the business—we can both get caught up in how crazy the business is. We try so hard to stay grounded for our two kids. That’s something I’m really proud of.

Who have been some of your mentors?

Jim Catino. What I didn’t know about what a major label system was how to navigate the political side of it. Jim always did such an amazing job of navigating that. He taught me so much even if he wasn’t trying to.

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever gotten?

That’s a great question. Someone once told me, “If you were given a seat at the table, you’re meant to be there.” I feel like a lot of times, especially when you’re starting out in your career, you sit in rooms and sometimes you’re scared to speak up. You could have the best idea, but you don’t know if it’s appropriate or you don’t want to step on other people’s toes, so you never say it even though you should.

You will be honored at next week’s Rising Women on the Row ceremony. What would you tell a young woman who wants to be where you are one day?

To be real. Don’t forget where you came from. Try not to sell out. You don’t have to kiss ass to get to the next phase in your career. It’s cliche, but if you want something, just go after it and be okay with pivoting if you have to. Don’t beat yourself up over it, show yourself grace instead. You’ll end up exactly where you’re supposed to.